"Accidental" home invasion

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Gottahaveone, Oct 9, 2008.

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  1. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    This is my personal, slightly altered rule, but still:

    DO NOT SHOOT ANYTHING WHICH YOU HAVE NOT POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AS A PROPER TARGET.

    And for crapssake, don't shoot a human unless you have to.
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    But would you not agree that a person unknown to you who had to bang the door open to enter and now stands in your living room IS a proper target?

    If not, what in the world WOULD you consider a proper target?
     
  3. polizei36

    polizei36 Member

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    .......lol.......lol.....

    :what: :what: :what:

    LOL........

    Had I walked into someones house unknowningly I would have been like :uhoh: And high tailed it outta there....:eek:

    There are to many laws aginst me even if it was a mistake or what ever you might call it for me to stick around and appoligize!
     
  4. nplant

    nplant Member

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    ZeSpectre - Yeah, I'm right with ya, I'm just saying that the two ideas are really separate here. One deals with what actually happened, and we don't know all the facts. The other deals with putting ourselves into that scenario and deciding, based on the limited details we've been given, how we may act.

    My comment wasn't intended to suggest that the shooter was in the wrong - quite the opposite. I'm arguing that we can't possibly, given the paltry bit of info we have, put ourselves in his shoes enough to pass judgment. All we can ask ourselves is, "How would I have reacted in this situation?" The part about the guy being silhouetted in the doorway was my attempt to say that I think, depending on facts presented, were I on a jury hearing the case, I may find him completely in the right. It would all depend on the totality of the facts presented in the case.
     
  5. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    got it.
     
  6. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Dump the victim in the same bunch that leave their kids in the car.

    All future Darwin alumni.
     
  7. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    When my wife and I were newlyweds we lived in a crappy apartment complex. Drug deals and broken windows were the norm. There was one occasion at about 2am when my wife woke me up because someone was attempting to open the front door. He was using a key and seemed undeterred by the fact that the door would not unlock. I yelled through the door and directed him to go away. It was at this point that I realized that he was drunk. He ordered (slurred) me to open the door because it was cold. My wife was on the phone with the police and I retrieved Mossy from his resting place and waited for something to happen (i.e. arrival of the police or the opening of the door). Eventually he grew tired and left.

    I learned two lessons from this experience:

    1) The "shak shook" of a pump shotgun is not as intimidating as I had been led to believe!!! :scrutiny::uhoh::scrutiny:

    2) I can not count on the police to get here in time. They did not arrive until a half hour later (my wife's tone of panic did not get them there any sooner). In their defense, it was a crazy holiday weekend and they were tied up with several other drunks. The officer did apprise me of Colorado's "Make my day" Law. Essentially he said, "If he comes into your home unannounced and uninvited and you feel threatened, shoot him." Sounds like a plan to me.

    I am getting the impression that many of you read the article without looking at the video clip. The impression that I gathered from the video is that the intruder had to break in. I agree that the shooter should identify the target, but if someone breaks in during a black out, I feel pretty threatened.
     
  8. RONSTAR

    RONSTAR Member

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    Nothing says howdi neighbor like a couple warm shots to the chest. On a serious side this tragic and hope everything turns out ok for the injured man.
     
  9. NonConformist

    NonConformist member

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    Thats funny...Ive lived in 2 apartment complexes and numerous houses and have never walked into the wrong one...
     
  10. kludge

    kludge Member

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    Does it make a difference if it's a 20-something, drunk off his @$$, breaking into a 65yo widow woman's house at 4am? Ooops, door is locked, bust in the window, go to sleep on the couch. Ooops thought it was his mom's house.

    Lucky for both of them my mom wasn't home, she was at work, but when she got home that was his excuse.
     
  11. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    That wouldn't have gone over to well with law enforcement in Seattle.
     
  12. mr.72

    mr.72 Member

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    I think breaking into the house is what identifies an intruder as a threat, is it not?
     
  13. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom Member

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    If you don't want to get hurt, look both ways BEFORE you cross the street.

    If you don't want to get hurt, check the expiration date on the milk BEFORE you drink it.

    If you don't want to get hurt, cut the power at the breaker box BEFORE you touch the wires.

    If you don't want to get hurt, make sure it's your house BEFORE you pound the door in.

    Common sense can rally go a long way towards keeping yourself alive.

    This is, of course, assuming he didn't do it on purpose.
     
  14. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    Why are folks assuming that "banging" means forcing the door? Is there another news report that hasn't been posted that says that the door was forced? The posted one says, the man who was shot "mistakenly walked into the wrong house".

    If you walked up to your house - or what you think is your house - in the dark, wouldn't you knock on the door?

    If you were going to visit a friend during a power outage, wouldn't you knock on the door, and step in?

    The critical ethical element is really whether the man who was shot was there with criminal intent or not. If he was not intending to rob the place, then it was wrong that he was shot - ethically if not legally. I don't see any way around that ethically. Using lethal force against someone who has no intention to harm you is wrong.

    Presumably more news will come out as to whether the man who was shot had a criminal record, etc. If it turn out to be a perfectly innocent mistake, I would hate to be the shooter.

    Mike
     
  15. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    And you're confident that you could tell your apartment from someone else's with the exact same layout in the dark - before you stumbled into any furniture?

    Mike
     
  16. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    The ground rules have to be:

    You should not be in someone else's house. For any reason. These are split second decisions that have to be made. It's not the time for checking the purpose of someone being in your house.

    If I'm in a bank after hours, you can bet it's not for milk or dog food.

    In my opinion, the man is darn lucky if he doesn't get shot, but if he is in someone else's home, he should expect to get shot.

    By the way, I think breaking into a house is different than mistakenly finding the wrong car in a parking lot.
     
  17. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    quote "And you're confident that you could tell your apartment from someone else's with the exact same layout in the dark"

    cooking orders (or lack of) other smells--pets/ flowers. of course if your old and cant smell well or see well you may end up dead as well.
     
  18. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    You know, I would CLAIM to have made a mistake if I opportunistically tried to burgle my neighbor's house during a power outage and got shot in the process. I don't want to get charged with burglary on top of getting shot!

    http://www.wftv.com/news/17668879/detail.html

    However, I would know a house is not my own if I have to defeat the lock in order to get inside.
     
  19. gregj

    gregj Member

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    At what point do you consider using deadly force? Here in Va, there must be 3 things present to use deadly force:
    Intent - That is the bad guy is there and is showing intent to be a threat.
    Opportunity - This is you and/or your family.
    Ability - What do they have to carry out out the threat?
    At this is is what we were taught in my CCW class.

    Example: If someone has just busted into your house and is standing there bare handed. Deadly force is not an option. Now if the empty-handed BG then made a move for a family member, or their room, then it's game on because we have the right to protect our family. Screwy, but it's law here.

    My CCW instructor ( who is a deputy for a local office) told us about a real case, which is very similar. A man buys his wife a shotgun for HD, teaches her how to use it etc. She is a very nervious sort, local PD is there a lot for strange noises, etc, as her husband travels a lot. One night, someone broke the glass in her door trying to get it. She shoots twice (#00 buckshot), and the person "breaking in" was DRT (dead right there). Turns out it was her neighbor, coming home after having too much to drink, and thought it was his home. The woman is a mess mentally now, sees a shrink, etc. I dont think the law came down hard on her, but they very easily could have. IOW, her's was not a good shoot.
     
  20. TEDDY

    TEDDY Member

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    intruder

    :rolleyes:It tends to be where you live as to your take on this subject.if from Mass you might think different than from Texas.Mass is more restrictive and people are more conserend witth aftermath,than say a state where you know your in the right.Mass was one of first to have a castle law and right touse all force nessecary to eject an intruder even lethal force.now a lot of south/western states have simular laws.
    if some one enters your house in dark,do you spend time to interagate them.
    letting them make first shot.I have had 3 invasions and lucky for them I saw them clearly.they did not get shot but changed their pants.I had one force my door and when he saw me standing there with pistol in his face,he never touched the stairs in three flites.only landings.roxbury was getting bad after the mafia left.got to give them credit they did not allow crime in their territory.
     
  21. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    It's always easy to imagine that an intruder will just stand around in a dark house waiting for you to make a life or death decision.
     
  22. Armueller2001

    Armueller2001 Member

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    Another reason why weapon mounted lights are our friends...
     
  23. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    "If someone has just busted into your house and is standing there bare handed. Deadly force is not an option. Now if the empty-handed BG then made a move for a family member, or their room, then it's game on because we have the right to protect our family. Screwy, but it's law here." -- gregj


    This is almost identical to the Colorado Law. The officer who responded to the story I shared above (#32) told me that I must "feel threatened." The law does appear to interpret "threat" in a manner that is slanted toward the home owner. The officer went so far as to say, "If the intruder uses a screw driver to break in, he is holding a weapon and that is a threat; under those circumstances you can shoot."

    Heavy
     
  24. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    What? You can't feel threatened by an unarmed person?
     
  25. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    I'd be the first to say that this incident fully appears to be the result of an unfortunate misunderstanding that resulted in one man shooting another man that PROBABLY didn't really deserve to be shot.

    But I'd also be the first to say that this misunderstanding is the result of the injured party's own mistake. The homeowner is not at fault for shooting an intruder in his home. The intruder is at fault for entering the wrong home.

    Malicious intent or not, he made a mistake, and paid for it.
     
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