Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Smaug, Jun 30, 2022.
Seems you’ll be in the same boat but with far fewer options.
In looking at the 1911 vs “modern” pistols, the real departure comes in the FCG, and in that regard the 1911 outshines nearly all of its competition. While inherent accuracy may be similar to a specific other model, people tend to shoot better while using a better trigger.
If the 1911 is off the list so be it, I just wonder for a range pistol whether you’ll luck into another that meets all requirements of fitment and accuracy at anywhere near the price.
No issues locating mags(I now have 7 total). They were just over $30/each shipped from an online vendor for factory mags.
Quality from top to bottom is FAR beyond the sub $500 purchase price. Resale on used specimens is typically that much or more. Even the older ones imported by EAA get nearly the current new cost.
Factory rear sight is adjustable for windage and elevation.
It has eaten everything I fed it, and is very comfortable to shoot. My petite fiancé, with hands as small as mine are big, shot 100+ rounds at the range one afternoon and had no issues whatsoever. She also was more accurate with it than her personal weapon.
Just placed an order for a second at the same price, and the first one has become my nightstand gun.
if you buy a K2-45 and for some reason don’t like it, recovering most if not all of your money selling it should not be an issue.
Having pawed through many boxes and bins of P220 mags looking fore heel-release versions (up to five now, so more comfortable than before) the button-release versions are plentiful, and can be found as cheap as $30 for used; typically about $35-40 for new on card. At least in the gun shows where I have gone looking for magazines.
A CZ would be the next best way to get a single-action trigger in a 45. I have an Israeli clone with a 4" barrel. Its trigger pull is nowhere near a tuned up 1911, but it beats the heck out of a spongy polystriker.
I purchased an HK USP45 (2002 production date) with 3 12-round mags (all marked For Law Enforcement Use Only) just prior to the pandemic for $450.
Since then, I picked up a few additional mags and the excellent GG&G Picatinny rail adapter (to attach a Surefire X300). I’ve also replaced the dead night sights with new ones. IHMO, it still was an excellent value for the level of accuracy and quality you get.
It is an exceptionally accurate pistol. This despite the fact that it is a large, blocky gun with a relatively run-of-the-mill DA/SA (Version 3 in HK speak) trigger feel.
Kraut Space Magic, I guess.
Photo below of some rapid fire through a few mags at 15 yards if I recall correctly.
When I had a P220 and P245, these mags always ran just as good as the factory Sig mags, at half the price.
Well, because they don't feed all types of ammo and only hold 7 rounds with a flush-fitting magazine. Sig P220 holds only 8, but will feed anything.
I'm thinking 10-13 rounds in the mag, feeds anything, is accurate and while still fitting my hand isn't too much to ask in this day and age.
I had a CZ97 in .45. It was a Jam-O-Matic.
Great to know; thanks!
Good to know about the quality, and I didn't know they're re-badged EAA's. (which always had a good reputation)
I think I'm going to check out my local fun shops and see what they have in used .45s. If they don't have something that's just perfect, I'll probably order up a K-2. (I prefer to support the local shops, if I can, as they are a dying breed)
The Sig P320 is nicer than I thought, but they only seem to make a Compact in 45. That was a dumb decision on their part. Sig's out of the running altogether now, I don't want to settle for a single stack.
They had a Beretta PX4 in 9 mm. I checked online and the dimensions are the same on the 45. I like this one more than I thought I would. It is so slick-operating, (as Berettas are) and not as ugly in person as in pix. Feels GREAT in the hand. DA trigger is long & heavy, but smooth and with no stacking. Much better than the HK45 that costs $300 more. (the Germans are proud of their stuff, aren't they?!) I now understand the earlier criticism of the HK trigger. It's better than a Glock trigger, but that's it. This gun has everything except a long sight radius. It'd be fun to have the rotary action, too...
I handled the latest Glock 21. It fits much better than the 2nd gen one I last shot. Ergos are good too, but that spongy, stacky trigger is still standard. It's a wonder they're still selling pistols with Walther on the scene now...
I handled a Walther PDP in 9mm. Hands-down, it is the best striker action I've ever tried. It's light, with almost no stacking and a short reset. It's better than a lot of SA/DA triggers in SA mode.
I handled whatever the latest striker-fired CZ 45 is. It's OK, but much bigger than I like. (height) Its trigger is just like a Glock's, but instead of the gun being blocky and thick, it's taller to get the same capacity.
The one that surprised me the most was a service size Springfield XD. I would order the Tactical model, with the 5" barrel. It feels great in the hand, the grip safety doesn't worry me. (unless it pinches or something?) I like that SA isn't trying to rape us for extra mags; they have that Gear Up Package with 4 extra mags and a range bag. This is worth $200 easy.
+ Rotary recoil design is unique and reduces felt recoil
+ Designed for 150k rounds with no parts breakages (HK designs for 20k)
+ Very good trigger, by all accounts
- Only 4" barrel and commensurate sight radius; may be a handicap in competitive shooting?
- No provisions for optics
- Kinda ugly
- Made in Italy
Verdict: I'm not sure if the shorter sight radius will let me shoot it as well as the SA XD45 Tactical. It's a sleeper. I love it.
Springfield Armory XD45 Tactical:
+ 5" barrel & long sight radius
+ Cheap as chips still?
+ Gear Up package saves $200 on mags!
+/- Can an adjustable rear sight be fitted?
- Ugly as can be
- Made in Croatia
Verdict: Feels good, look bad, good shooter, great value. I'm lukewarm about it.
+ Great trigger
+ Great ergonomics
- No aftermarket
- Mags are expensive and hard to find?
- Flippy recoil
- Made in Germany
Verdict: Astoundingly good trigger put this one in the running despite the cons.
SAR-USA K2 45:
+ 14 rd capacity without being too bulky
- Mags hard to find?
- No one has them, so I'd have to buy sight-unseen
- Made in Turkey
S&W M&P 45 2.0:
+ A good middle ground in all respects?
+/- Need to find one to handle and try the trigger
Ruger American Pistol Duty:
- Poor quality?
+/- Need to find one to handle
Sig Sauer P220:
+ Nice trigger
+ Low felt recoil due to weight
+ Readily available used at good prices
+ Mags will be easy to find, too
+ Classic design (1975)
- 8 round capacity or protruding mags
Sig Sauer P320:
+ Nice trigger, but heavier
+ Light recoil
+ Has all the right specs
+ Low bore axis
+ High capacity
+ Easy-to-find mags
- Awful trigger
What is FCG?
Aside from being either low cap or having a protruding mag, I'm thinking I may want it to feed hollow points in the future, in case this becomes my HD gun as well. I tried a RIA double stack 1911 with a mag well and adjustable sights today, and my only real criticism is how far forward the slide release is; not easy to get to at all. It's a reach to the trigger, but since it's SAO, it's not an issue.
By the way, there's no more cost-effective upgrade in all of handgunning than swapping in a factory "D" mainspring (the mainspring used on the DAO models) on a Beretta 92 or PX4. The 11-lb. factory D spring costs $5 and will drop your DA pull to around 8 pounds. (You can also buy a 10-lb. mainspring from Langdon Tactical that will drop the DA pull to around 6 to 6.5 pounds.)
Most 1911 shooters (right handers at least) use their support hand thumb to release the slide release lever.
For clarity, it is not the same spring. While you can use a 92 spring in a PX4, they are different. A 92 "D" spring is heavier than a stock PX4 F spring.
Fire Control Group or “trigger” group.
Hi-Point JHP .45. Fills all the criteria you set forth, and you could buy/load a lot of ammo for the difference in price.
Is it ugly? Yes. Heavy? Yes. But they will shoot any ammo, and do it reliably and accurately. Bonus- Makes a good nightstand gun.
They're buzzy and not elegant at all. the one I shot wasn't accurate.
Terrible-nasty guns. I will never own one unless I'm really down on my luck and it's the only thing I can afford to have.
Seriously? firearm buyers are likely the worst in any industry.. If it did not work it would have been dead a looooooooong time ago..The gun has existed for over 100yrs and continues to be built by dozens of manufactures.
It would be odd to find a current production 1911, or even a 1911 built in the last 20 years that doesn't feed nearly all typical ammo types.
How many rounds can the Glock G21, Springfield XD45, Walter PPQ 45, CZ97, SAR-USA K2 45, Ruger American Pistol 45, CZ97, Beretta PX4 .45, or SIG P320 fit in their flush magazines?
Hint, it's a trick question.
SIG P220 flush mags only hold 7.
A P220 data point from the late Stephen A. Camp https://hipowersandhandguns.com/45_acp_sig_sauer_p220 and SWC ammunition.htm
Even assuming a 1911 can only feed ball ammo, why's that a problem for a range pistol? I'm not buying boutique hollowpoints to poke through paper.
Low key, the Hi-Point 45s are some very accurate pistols. Even with the awful factory trigger. I think it's the fixed barrel that does it.
Because I may want to use it for a home defense gun one day. (ten rounds of 45 ACP > five rounds of 38+P, I guess)
Still not buying one.
While much of what I shoot is cast, all of my 1911s have had hundreds of JHPs through them while my HD pistol has ingested thousands of XTPs, Nosler, and Gold Dots. My experience mirrors that of fellow shooters at the local club where 1911 ownership is cliché, perhaps stemming from our proximity to the likes of SA, RRA, and Les Baer. Either way, plenty would argue the pistol’s reliability is stellar, myself among them.
I had a Para Ordnance GI. It would not feed LSWC, plated flat nose, nor hollow points reliably. Based on the GI design, it seems like nothing was considered but 230 gr. round nose.
I'm also kind of keen to have a high-cap 45 before they fall to another "Assault Weapons Ban".
How about SA? Crisp and not too heavy?
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