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Acier Cockrill 16 ga. Leige Belgium

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by Remington Employee, Dec 3, 2003.

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  1. Remington Employee

    Remington Employee Member

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    Location:
    Ilion NY
    This is my fathers gun, has the above text gold inlayed on the rib of the exposed hammer side by side. Also has Powdeur Blanc in gold over the chambers . Hand engraved reciever,and hammers. Circasian walnut stock and forend. Serial # coincides with manufacture in 1928.

    I was told by a dealer at the Syracuse gunshow that this specimin with 98%original bluing and a few issues,
    (A replaced hammer, small fixable crack in the wrist of the stock that's common in this gun and filled in rear sling swivel hole)

    was worth $950.00 as it sets, and if the issues were taken care of it would be in the $1250.00 to $1300.00 range.

    Are these guns collectable? If a dealer is telling me this, how much is it REALLY worth?
     
  2. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    To begin with, Acier Cockerill (the correct spelling) just means Cockerill Steel. Cockerill Sambre is the major Belgian steel maker (equivalent to Krupp or Vickers), so the marking does not indicate the maker of the gun, only the maker of the steel used in the barrels. The steel would be of excellent quality, and solid, not Damascus.

    Poudeur Blanc means White Powder, an old name for bulk smokeless powder, that is, smokeless powder that could be used in the same bulk as black powder. (A loader could use the same measure for both, but the smokeless would weigh much less than the black powder.)

    Nothing you described indicates the maker, a very common situation with Liege guns, where makers had sort of a cooperative with different companies making different parts of the guns.

    If you plan to shoot it, check the proof marks on the bottoms of the barrels and look for the number 65 or 70. These would be the chamber lengths in millimeters. 65 is equivalent to 2 1/2 inch shells, 70 is 2 3/4 inch shells. Firing the longer shell in a short chamber is dangerous. Other than that, the gun should be safe with moderate smokeless powder loads.

    As to the cracked stock and the replaced hammer, the stock can probably be fixed, but replacing it would cost a pile of money if you could even get anyone to do the work. Finding a new stock that would fit would be "mission impossible" I think. I would not worry about the hammer unless it is really horrible, for the same reason. Cost of making one would be quite high.

    As to value, I would like to hear from some others, but I think the dealer gave you the straight scoop but was giving you a retail price (what you could sell it for to an individual). I rather doubt he would pay you those prices; I know I wouldn't.

    Jim
     
  3. Remington Employee

    Remington Employee Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks Jim, I don't think I'd have a problem in fixing the stock, as my Dad was a Custom Shop employee at Remington for a number of years.
    I was aware the Powdeur Blanc referred to nitro based propellants rather than black powder.
    As for the mismatched hammers, My Dad figured he'd buy a matched pair and have Remington's premier (retired now) engraver reproduce them from the original, as he is a family friend.
     
  4. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    It is nice to have that kind of friend. Good luck.

    Jim
     
  5. Remington Employee

    Remington Employee Member

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    Thanks again for the information,I 'll pass it on to my Dad.
     
  6. Traveler

    Traveler Member

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    If you are going to get hammers try to get rough parts without the attachment holes drilled. Then the gunsmith who fits them can mate them better. Don't worry about the shape and finish, as that is the easiest part. A little file work and they will be a set.

    You should be able to find the hammers in the US, but if not contact Waffen Springer in Vienna, Austria.
     
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