ACP Revolver

[GSMAC]

I’m very disappointed that my S&W 1917 in 45 ACP won’t shoot CCI ACP Snake Shot. The cylinder locks up after first shot the case swells in the bullet area and holds the rim against the frame. Is there another option such as a plastic cartridge type?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'd say the option is "not to shoot CCI ACP Snake Shot".

Honestly.

Sounds like the problem is you're not getting enough case expansion from gas pressure to seal the case in the cylinder. If so, then it's simply an instance of a type of ammo your gun doesn't like, which means if you keep trying you'll just continue to be irritated with the same problem. I'll let others input on this as to the cause.

You ask if there is another option, such as a plastic cartridge type. I've never heard of such, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'll let others weigh in on this. If so, give it a try by all means...and let us know how it works out.

Now for my unsolicited opinion on "snake shot":

Like many, I've played around with snake shot years ago. My findings are that they are, at best, dubious in performance for anything other than literally point-blank range. And I mean muzzle-almost-on-the-critter range.

There are several reasons for this, most notably being the size of the shot (pitiful mass means pitiful terminal ballistics) and rifled barrels (means exceptionally wide-spread pattern with no coherence or consistency at any distance).

Shot is best shot from smooth bore. There's a reason why shotguns aren't rifled...and it's EXACTLY because rifling will horribly screw up the pattern of the shot.

BUT...shooting is fun, and shooting shot shells can be no less fun. So play around with them, if only to have fun and see how they work. But if you're going to use it for varmint/critter shooting, do yourself and the critters a favor and using something that'll reliably kill the critters humanely and not leave them injured to die painfully.

 

[GSMAC]

Thank you for the detailed description of gas expansion however with 45 ACP CCI loads the parent case is swedged where the projectile is supposed to be so that they will be long enough to load in a magazine and cycle in an auto loading pistol. The revolver cylinder bore has a step so the cartridges will not just slide through the cylinder. The 45 ACP tests out to be the tightest group of most I’ve tested at 8 feet 5” patterns. As for plastic cartridges CCI uses them on all of their shot cartridges in case you are unfamiliar. I do know that a 45 ACP revolvers are fairly rare animal and I had hoped that someone out there would have the answer without being the smartest person in the room.

 

[Coyote3855]

Thank you for the detailed description of gas expansion however with 45 ACP CCI loads the parent case is swedged where the projectile is supposed to be so that they will be long enough to load in a magazine and cycle in an auto loading pistol. The revolver cylinder bore has a step so the cartridges will not just slide through the cylinder. The 45 ACP tests out to be the tightest group of most I’ve tested at 8 feet 5” patterns. As for plastic cartridges CCI uses them on all of their shot cartridges in case you are unfamiliar. I do know that a 45 ACP revolvers are fairly rare animal and I had hoped that someone out there would have the answer without being the smartest person in the room.

You asked a brief and fairly open ended question. RetiredUSNChief gave what I considered a polite, inoffensive, and informative reply about pistol caliber snake shot in general. Maybe I'm just having a bad morning, but your response seems snarky and inappropriate for The High Road.
It appears you are already aware of plastic cartridges. If I am misinterpreting your response, I apologize in advance.

 

[Master Blaster]

Call CCI, perhaps the lot you bought is on the long side or over pressure.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Thank you for the detailed description of gas expansion however with 45 ACP CCI loads the parent case is swedged where the projectile is supposed to be so that they will be long enough to load in a magazine and cycle in an auto loading pistol. The revolver cylinder bore has a step so the cartridges will not just slide through the cylinder. The 45 ACP tests out to be the tightest group of most I’ve tested at 8 feet 5” patterns. As for plastic cartridges CCI uses them on all of their shot cartridges in case you are unfamiliar. I do know that a 45 ACP revolvers are fairly rare animal and I had hoped that someone out there would have the answer without being the smartest person in the room.

I'll bow to your knowledge about the differences between cartridge designs and the plastic shot cartridges. As I said before, I didn't have any idea on whether such was available.

So...I'm assuming you're using the moon clips with the ACP ammo?

I had thought about getting a .45 revolver which would take ACP, but ultimately decided it wasn't interesting enough for me to invest the money into. I gave it up in favor of getting my all time favorite revolver (Colt SAA, 5 1/2" barrel, in .45 caliber).

 

[v8stang289]

I load 45 acp snake shot using #8 shot in the speer plastic capsules meant for 45 colt. They are long and will not work in an autoloader but work extremely well in my 625. I load them over a medium charge of Unique. I cant remember the specifics right now but I'll add the charge weight when I get to my notes to check it.
I've not used it on snakes but have dusted a few clay pigeons at around 10' in testing.

Shown here next to 38spl and 22lr shot shells

 

[GSMAC]

Hmmmmm I’ll take that into consideration it was a simple question about the cartridge design and I thought someone would have some actual knowledge about ACP revolvers rather than the proper way to dispatch a snake. My apologies to anyone who was offended by my responce.

 

[GSMAC]

Wow v2stang that’s exactly what I was looking for so that capsule will fit in past the step in the cylinder in a moon clip? Thank you for your responce how do I contact you for details

 

[GSMAC]

You guys are awesome and funny, I’m just to embarrassed to go Gator hunting with a Taurus Judge. I was never impressed with pistol shot shells either but 45 ACP is an impressive snake round it shoots tighter than 45 LC and the 410 shotgun shells kick ridiculously.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Hmmmmm I’ll take that into consideration it was a simple question about the cartridge design and I thought someone would have some actual knowledge about ACP revolvers rather than the proper way to dispatch a snake. My apologies to anyone who was offended by my responce.

I'm not offended.

I try to address the meat of the questions people ask when I post, and clarify where I'm stating opinion. Especially where I stray off on a tangent...like when I stated what was clearly an unsolicited opinion in my post.

In general, I assume we're all adults here and behave accordingly...entirely able to clear up any misconceptions. Like we just did.

The "high road", doncha know!

 

[v8stang289]

Wow v2stang that’s exactly what I was looking for so that capsule will fit in past the step in the cylinder in a moon clip? Thank you for your responce how do I contact you for details

I got the idea from here
http://weckuptothees.blogspot.com/2010/08/45-acp-shotshell-handloads-for.html?m=1

Except I used #8 shot
It's pretty much a reloaders proposition only, but if you have 45 acp dies it's not hard. Just need the capsules and the shot( I cut open some 12ga shells)

And yes they fit past the step that the case headspaces on. I've used them in full moonclips, but currently just keep them in 2-rd 1/3 moonclips

 

[Texas10mm]

The only 45 ACP shotshells that I know of are the CCI that use the full aluminum case. A plastic case could break during feeding in a auto, though they do make plastic cased 9mm go figure.

 

[BigBlue 94]

I load 45 acp snake shot using #8 shot in the speer plastic capsules meant for 45 colt. They are long and will not work in an autoloader but work extremely well in my 625. I load them over a medium charge of Unique. I cant remember the specifics right now but I'll add the charge weight when I get to my notes to check it.
I've not used it on snakes but have dusted a few clay pigeons at around 10' in testing.

Shown here next to 38spl and 22lr shot shells
View attachment 936552

When you say a medium charge, is that a medium charge for a 200gr projectile in a 45acp cartridge? Ive got some of the speer capsules myself and wanna load up some 44specials for a trip to rattler country. Have you experimented with larger shot? Aren't most loaded with 9 to 12 shot? Im thinking maybe 6 shot.

Ive been handloading off and on since i was about 12. Ill be 32 in a couple days. Just never done any shot capsules. Do any load books have loads for shot capsules that you know of?

 

[Dewey New]

I know this is a bit off topic, but .38 special snake shot can do what is advertised.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=2373559982950910&set=a.1390582147915370

 

[v8stang289]

When you say a medium charge, is that a medium charge for a 200gr projectile in a 45acp cartridge? Ive got some of the speer capsules myself and wanna load up some 44specials for a trip to rattler country. Have you experimented with larger shot? Aren't most loaded with 9 to 12 shot? Im thinking maybe 6 shot.

Ive been handloading off and on since i was about 12. Ill be 32 in a couple days. Just never done any shot capsules. Do any load books have loads for shot capsules that you know of?

I'm pretty sure the capsule with #8 was less than 200 gns and I think i used 6gr of unique, but it may have been 6.5 like the article i referenced. #8 is all I've ever tried in the home loaded shot shells I've made in 38spl and 45acp, and it seems to be effective
I dispatched a medium copperhead in my backyard with a 4" model 10 with the #8 capsules. 2 shots at 4' mangled it pretty good. 1 probably would have been enough.
As far as load data, the only printed data I've ever seen for them comes on a little card with the capsules. But it's possible some manuals have data on subject. Maybe Speer?

Also just wanted to add: I try not to kill snakes in general, but since I have 2 young children and 2 small dogs playing in and around my yard I do not want venomous snakes hanging around the house. I've had probably 12 or so copperheads in the yard.in the last 12 years, but thankfully none in the last couple of years. I did have a good sized Eastern Kingsnake take up here last year. He's allowed to stay as long as he'd like lol.

 

[magyars4]

Somewhere around he I have a few shotshells in 45 ACP that are not CCI.
The brass is crimped and it looks like a shotgun shell.
They are probably 40 years old.
If I happen to run across them I'll post a picture

 

[BigBlue 94]

I'm pretty sure the capsule with #8 was less than 200 gns and I think i used 6gr of unique, but it may have been 6.5 like the article i referenced. #8 is all I've ever tried in the home loaded shot shells I've made in 38spl and 45acp, and it seems to be effective
I dispatched a medium copperhead in my backyard with a 4" model 10 with the #8 capsules. 2 shots at 4' mangled it pretty good. 1 probably would have been enough.
As far as load data, the only printed data I've ever seen for them comes on a little card with the capsules. But it's possible some manuals have data on subject. Maybe Speer?

Also just wanted to add: I try not to kill snakes in general, but since I have 2 young children and 2 small dogs playing in and around my yard I do not want venomous snakes hanging around the house. I've had probably 12 or so copperheads in the yard.in the last 12 years, but thankfully none in the last couple of years. I did have a good sized Eastern Kingsnake take up here last year. He's allowed to stay as long as he'd like lol.

I think my old capsule box still has load data. I might have an old speer book around, but i lost almost all my grandpas reloading stuff in a fire.

I wouldnt wanna go bigger than 6 shot due to pellet quantity. So you loaded a medium charge for whatever weight your loaded shot capsule weighed?

As for killing snakes, im of the same mentality. Only two venomous snakes in my direct area, the Timber rattler and the copperhead. But where im going in a couple weeks has Diamondbacks as well and larger numbers.

I cant remember if my capsules are 44 or 45 cal. 44 will be out of a Rossi 44spl 5 shot DA with a 3 or 4 inch barrel. 45 would be out of my Colt M1917

 

[v8stang289]

I wouldnt wanna go bigger than 6 shot due to pellet quantity. So you loaded a medium charge for whatever weight your loaded shot capsule weighed?

Yeah thats why I went with #8, still holds plenty of shot in a 44/45, but theyre a little bigger than the common factory snake shot loads( usually somewhere between #9 and #11 from what I've seen).
I think the #8 has more mass to better penetrate/stop the snake, while still having good pattern coverage.
As for charge weight I just went off of what others had done before, but started a little lower. I did weigh the finished "projectile" and compare some published charges to that weight to make sure it looked ok. But it's a bit hard to draw parallels bewteen copper, cast, and plastic to determine where the pressure will be, lol.

I would load a few and pattern them, to have an idea of effective distance and how they perform.

 

[GSMAC]

Well I am pleasantly surprised with the follow ups. I have a friend who loads professionally and he has offered to help. His supplier didn’t have the 45 Colt capsules so we are at a stand still and everywhere I looked today was sold out or back ordered. He also has a chronograph so we can dial in a safe load. I’m thinking 7 1/2 shot since I have 2 cases my SX4 won’t shoot Winchester 2 3/4” very light loads for sporting clays. I will get back with the results when we get to loading.

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

I have 3 45acp revolvers. Way back I cut some 308 cases off just short the length of my acp cylinder. Ran the through an acp die do they would chamber. Primed them then added Unique powder. Installed a cardboard wad, poured the case about full of #8's and sealed it with a glued in carboard wad. Wasn't impressed with the results at more than 8 feet. Patterns tend be shaped like a star with a hole in the middle.

 

[magyars4]

Found one!

 

[Gordon]

Somewhere around he I have a few shotshells in 45 ACP that are not CCI.
The brass is crimped and it looks like a shotgun shell.
They are probably 40 years old.
If I happen to run across them I'll post a picture

The US Govt. .45 shot shell ! , I had ones like above pictured. Remington R45AP5

Long gone but did work in my 1917s:


I started loading my fired .45 Auto Rim cases with the Speer shot capsule for .45 Long colt like pictured above. They work very well !

 

[Dr.Rob]

I am positive cci says DO NOT USE THIS IN REVOLVERS for the exact reason stayed by the op.

 

[TTv2]

None of the rimless shotshell ammo will run flawlessly in a revolver, which means if you want a revolver for shot, you're stuck with rimmed options only. Unless size/weight is of utmost importance, I would skip .38/.357, not enough shot and stick with the big bore .44 and .45.

You know, if you don't already have a revolver, this is the perfect reason to get a .410 handgun. CCI shotshells aren't cheap and you can get 3 inch .410 shells with literally double the amount of shot for half the price.