Active Shooter Incident on Campus

[Mikhail Weiss]

Had an active shooter incident recently at a local college campus. (OKCCC, Friday, Feb. 26.) Turns out it was nothing more than one great big FUBAR goat screw consisting of one round fired, and 53 minutes of police/security/bewildered-students bumpercars, which you can probably still read about here, http://www.occc.edu/pioneer/Archives/March_5_2010/news1.html and here, http://newsok.com/shooting-scare-stirs-panic-at-oklahoma-city-community-college/article/3442696

I asked one of the professors what the college policy was for such an incident, and she said, “Shelter in place. Close and lock the doors. Turn out the lights. Remain in the classroom.”

I, of course, wondered why. Why is that [sticking around for a one-sided gunfight] considered good procedure? Many of the classrooms in which students might lock themselves are equipped with doors with windows. Assuming that a bad guy couldn't knock open such a door, he could knock out said window, then reach inside and open the door (yes, the distance between the two is that short). The walls look like nothing remotely bulletproof, and some of the firsthand accounts of students “sheltering under desks” reminded me of nothing more than the execution positions Harris and Klebold found in Columbine.

The college has a “no weapons” policy, and the state concealed carry law prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons on college campuses.

My questions:

1. Why is “shelter in place” considered a good and useful policy?

a. What is good or bad about such a policy for the college?
b. … law enforcement?
c. … students?​

2. What is the best course of action for the unarmed, and why?

I have my own ideas. I'd like to hear yours.

Thanks.

 

[tank mechanic]

The teacher can have everyone hunker down and hope the shooting stops before it gets to the class room, or they can send their students into the hallways where the shooting is happening and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[JoeMal]

^^ I agree with that

I suppose the logic is that 'it will be over' by the time he/she makes it into any one room...whereas letting everyone run rampant may make for a pretty big target if the shooter didn't care who he/she killed....

But I also agree with the argument that it's completely ridiculous to sit there...I'm not sure how else to handle it though. Personally, I think if it happened in my college, I would make every attempt to get the hell out of there, regardless of policy or what my professor said.

The best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing.

 

[WardenWolf]

Well, it depends. Many of those door windows are actually very heavy glass. While they could be shot through, breaking them is another story. Also, it theoretically would be possible to line up enough materials to be hard to shoot through from that perspective. However, in an active shooter situation at ground level, or even possibly second floor, the best response is (assuming the shooter is in the halls) to lock the door and have everyone escape through the outside windows, thus bypassing the shooter entirely.

Most schools attempt a one-size-fits-all policy for everything, including this. Most also are extremely liberal and believe in the passive victim approach. Unfortunately, in this situation, it tends to kill as many as it saves. The ideal solution would be dependent on the shooter's location and your situation, but schools assume people are stupid and thus try to lump everyone into one rules set.

 

[MisterMike]

I've often wondered about these responses, too. It seems that, in certain circumstances, a lockdown could have the effect of making students and faculty stationary targets. However, in any high-stress situation a certain number of people will act inappropriately, sometimes escaping into danger. On balance, a lockdown is probably a good overall response. However, it seems like there still has to be room for common sense to dictate that it's sometimes best to escape (for example, the assailant is coming toward your classroom with guns-a-blazin').

 

[Gouranga]

One other aspect, if all the innocent targets are locked down in the rooms, and the shooter is the only one in the hall, you create a much better scenario for SWAT or first responders to get a clean shot at the suspect.

Course that assumes he/she stays in the hall and does not go room to room for the conveniently collected array of victims in each room.

 

[Cosmoline]

It helps make things orderly for the police. And it makes it much easier to examine all the bodies afterwards.

Personally, if unarmed when the shooting starts I'd advise ignoring the teacher and getting out. If that means busting open a low-story window and leaping out, do it. Unarmed, the only real defense you have against one of these guys is distance. Very few of them have much marksmanship skill or the time to get a bead on some person running away.

If it's not possible to run away and you're within the 20 yard range, then at last run at a right angle across his field of fire. Never directly away or towards. But by all means keep moving.

And of course if you're lucky enough to find yourself on his six with something sufficiently heavy in hand, beat his brains out right there without hesitation, warning or remorse. Give the blows every ounce of power you can, and don't stop till his brain stem is destroyed and he lacks the capacity to continue. Nothing short of that is safe when you're dealing with one of these loons. Those who have tried to reason with them or use lesser force tend to get blown away.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Unless the school building is built real cheap the doors are very thick and solid wood, with steel jams. Any glass is usualy also thick, and would be damn hard to break through. Pile desks in front of it and you are pretty safe.

School shooters are looking for targets of opportunity, they are not going to waste 20 minutes breaking into a room. Judging by how the doors are built at most schools kicking one down is out of the question, and going through the glass would require a sledge or something similer.

Of course the best solution would be to allow CC on campus. Than the students could shoot back.

 

[Ankeny]

School shooters are looking for targets of opportunity...

Funny, that is exactly what the team leader or our Regional Response Team (HRT) told me. So did our local deputy, and the Chief of Police.

 

[JoeSlomo]

Pro's:

Cleared hallways so shooter can't spray down a hallway filled with targets.
Cleared hallways allow fast movement for responders, and could ease shooter identification.
Shooter must breach a door to gain access to targets.
Doors can be barricaded.
Doors generally offer one access point which can be overwatched and defended.
Unless a shooter is in the room, all inside KNOW where the shooter IS NOT, and won't accidentally run into the shooter while they try to escape.

Cons:

Shooter provided with many targets with little to no escape avenues.
Shooter has freedom of movement through hallways, and possibly entire campus.


I'm sure there are more both for and against, however, those come to mind.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Funny, that is exactly what the team leader or our Regional Response Team (HRT) told me. So did our local deputy, and the Chief of Police.

They did their research.

I wrote a paper on the subject awhile back for a class I had in school. I was arguing for the 2nd ammendment and my school's library had some very interesting study's on the subject on its intranet.

I also learned that the vast majority of them occur with .22LR's.

Most school shooters are pretty screwed up people. Also some can be scary accurite with their weapons, don't assume because they are kids they can't shoot. Because of conditioning in video games and their mental state many can and do shoot very well. BUT most of them won't spend time busting down doors, so locking yourself in a classroom is good advice.


Personaly if I ever have the mistfortune of finding myself in such a situation I'm locking the door and putting everything in the classroom against it. While calling the cops on my cell and giving them information on exactly who is in the room with me, and any usefull intel we have on the shooters. If I'm armed I probably would just sit tight and protect the people around me.

 

[cleardiddion]

Guy's gonna run out of ammo or steam sometime.
Maybe the professors are hoping that one or the other reaches it's end before it gets to them.

Sorry, college made me cynical. My major (Homeland Security) more so.

 

[dacavasi]

I realize that any bureacracy has a need for 'protocol', but, in light of several recent campus-based shooting incidents, I have to wonder, what ever happened to the aspect the common man taking action?? In the well-publicized case of the Virginia Tech gunman, he was apparently able to walk at his liesure down several hallways, entering classrooms at will, and taking out students and teachers (over 30...) many of whom were cowering behind their desks! One or two able-bodied students/teachers could have tackled him at any point, and effectively ended his 'parade', and substantially mitigated the resultant loss-of-life! All the 'Campus right to carry' arguments aside, ONE MAN could have stood up and saved dozens in this case, and likely in many such cases. Why do we continue to condone absolute cowardice in the face of these completely amateur aggressions? Hiding behind desks??? Are we kidding??? "Turning out the lights"??? Whatever happened to courage in this country?

 

[JoeSlomo]

Some valid points indeed.

I have to wonder, what ever happened to the aspect the common man taking action??

It has been my experience that college / university campuses don't necessarily hold many "common men".

Whatever happened to courage in this country?

Courage still exists, however, it is not a trait that is appreciated as it once was, much to our detriment. The 9/11 attacks changed how citizens view travel on aircraft, and as a result, there have been more incidents of "common men" realizing that they needed to take action. Both the "shoe bomber" and the Christmas "underwear bomber" were taken down by common men on the aircraft. This is good.

Courage as a man, and the attributes of BEING a man, are today viewed as oppressive traits, and generally mocked in today's media, and society in general. Strength, courage, and integrity used to represent the ideal traits of a man, however, these days it seems that "sensitivity", "tolerance", and "equality" are the traits expected of a man. All who maintain traditional traits are affixed with a negative label or are considered archaic.

/spit

"Sensitivity" hasn't worked out well for the current generation.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Interesting responses, so far. The bulk of them seem weighted toward the "shelter in place" end of the spectrum.

 

[3:00hold]

I'm not trying to be anti police, or excessively negative, but who are these responders that you speak of? In Binghampton, I think the waited an hour after the shooting stopped before going in.

My humble opinion, if you hear gunshots and can run the other way, run the other way. I'll take my chances of some hopefully poorly trained nut job hitting a running target at increasingly longer ranges. If I'm getting shot unarmed, it's going to be in the back. I would not want to hide and hope for the best, university policy or not.

How do you know that the subject of their rage isn't the fellow sitting next to you, or for that matter, you?

I'm certainly not a tactical expert, but that's my take.

 

[zorro45]

The concept of righteous aggression towards an evildoer (sorry to sound like Pres.Bush)
has been beaten out of our kids since kindergarten by the school system. (unless they have been indoctrinated otherwise on the home front)

 

[Webbj0219]

Gotta remember that holding the door and other such manners, or risking your life to save woman and children is just oppressive. Its much more respectible to keep only yourself in mind, never risk your own safety. Better yet we shouldnt even think of dangerous things, because maybe if we all put this out of our minds it will just go away. So just sit around the house and watch tv and show no respect to woman, then youll be a good man.

But for the bad guys out there if we get about a dozen of us together, some guys with no fear/nothing to lose who wont turn back Im sure you could easily charge and overpower a single gunman. But thats probable just crazy.

 

[orvpark]

Courage as a man, and the attributes of BEING a man, are today viewed as oppressive traits, and generally mocked in today's media, and society in general. Strength, courage, and integrity used to represent the ideal traits of a man, however, these days it seems that "sensitivity", "tolerance", and "equality" are the traits expected of a man. All who maintain traditional traits are affixed with a negative label or are considered archaic.

/spit

"Sensitivity" hasn't worked out well for the current generation.

That was very eloquent and very true.

 

[Cosmoline]

But for the bad guys out there if we get about a dozen of us together, some guys with no fear/nothing to lose who wont turn back Im sure you could easily charge and overpower a single gunman.

I'm not so sure about that. Bullets have no respect for manhood. Ask the brave souls at the Somme how well such plans went.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Yes, and Ernst Jünger both observed during WWI and wrote of it later that, time and again, the importance of individual action could never be underestimated because individual action often turned the tide of battle.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

My humble opinion, if you hear gunshots and can run the other way, run the other way.

This sounds perfectly reasonable.

 

[Hatterasguy]

IMHO its a fools errand to try to engage someone who is armed and looking for targets to shoot if you are unarmed. If you can run, run. Only fight if you have no other choice.


OTOH if you have a Glock, point and shoot.

 

[Shadow 7D]

digging random links I found my uni's active shooter policy, they left the last action as "if all else fails attempt to disarm/disable the shooter" (paraphrased) Me I'm jamming the door and getting some of the football players to put a desk through the window, then explaining to the people which way and where to regroup.

But see thats the last pesky job kicking in, damn military, teaching people how to think and react. Part of me is like, it's just one guy, but hell, I'm sure the swat team can get in on the action in just 3 or 4 short hours of waiting.

 

[Spencer_OKC]

Courage as a man, and the attributes of BEING a man, are today viewed as oppressive traits, and generally mocked in today's media, and society in general. Strength, courage, and integrity used to represent the ideal traits of a man, however, these days it seems that "sensitivity", "tolerance", and "equality" are the traits expected of a man. All who maintain traditional traits are affixed with a negative label or are considered archaic.

Is America Still Making Men, by Dennis Prager