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Actually finding a good penetrating oil?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Deus Machina, Jan 26, 2011.

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  1. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    Alright, I've got seriously stubborn leading in my 9mm CZ, which I'm betting is in part from forgetting about it and shooting my messy lead reloads before some FMJ.

    Most of the crud came out pretty easily, with a good scrub and soak in a 'salad dressing' of 50/50 acetone and automatic transmission fluid, which does well in the garage.

    But this stuff crammed into the grooves has been utterly unaffected by brand new bronze brushes, the 50/50, Hoppes #9, a few strands of knockoff Chore Boy (which turned out to be plated, not pure copper like it actually says on the package :mad:), 40X bore cleaner, and the WD40 and teflon-based 'penetrating oil and lubricant' I figured wasn't going to hurt, and all combinations.

    And I can't find Kroil in the local places for the life of me. So, is PB Blaster safe enough to use? Is there an actual lead solvent, or something else that works as well as Kroil? Most penetrating oils, I've found, are just ATF with cleaners in them, or an attempt to recreate WD40.
     
  2. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    I use PB Blaster a lot it is a good rust remover/preservative and it has not been a problem with anything of mine other than some cheesey plastics that are also bothered by WD and other like products. Some paints and also varnish will suffer if left on them for a long time. It is my cleaner of choice with black powder firearms and does keep the rusties from appearing for sure. PB along with #9 and carb cleaner are my main three liquid products I use.
     
  3. redneckdan

    redneckdan Member

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    There is a lead 'solvent' available at your local grocery store. But it is highly toxic after use. The used solution contains lead acetate which is highly soluble in water and easily absorbed by the human body. Combine 50/50 white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Plug the end of the barrel and fill with solution. Let stand for a minute or two then dump on to absorbal or kitty litter, this contaminated material needs to be taken to a hazardous waste facility. The lead will now wipe out of the barrel easily with a cleaning patch. You may have to repeat with cases of heavy leading. This solution can remove some types of bluing so it would be best to remove the barrel from the pistol before using this method.
     
  4. SpentCasing

    SpentCasing Member

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    +1 for PB blaster. Made here in Cleveland and we need all the economy we can get.
     
  5. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    KROIL OIL is the best. Used in the aero industry and works well at crawling behind copper . I learned about it from a older smithy that specialized in high quality rifles and used it on a old 788 rem that had a heavly coppered barrel. I plugged it and filled with kroil and let stand for several days. All the copper brushed out and return it to a good shooting rifle.
     
  6. slowr1der

    slowr1der Member

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    A friend that runs an auto parts store talked me into using Seafoam Deep Creep after telling him that PB Blaster wasn't working for what I was trying to get unstuck. I went out and bought some of the Deep Creep, and it worked amazingly. I swear by this stuff now. I'm not sure if I'd use it on a gun, but as far as a penetrating oil, I really like it.
     
  7. max it

    max it Member

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    Lead, what lead?

    HI Deux,

    I hardly believe how many concoctions you have tried. The simple answer is the Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's. It's mechanical rather than chemical. My gunsmith strongly recommends it for guys like you and me who obviously use lead bullets. I cast my own.

    Good luck,

    Max
     
  8. rodregier

    rodregier Member

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    You can purchase KROIL from Brownells and their sister company Sinclair International.
     
  9. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I have used Methyl Salicylate NF (wintergreen oil) as a penetrant for rusted steel fittings, nuts, bolts, hydraulic fittings on deck machinery on board ships. It is the best, fastest and smells the best of anything I've ever tried for that. Haven't tried it for what we're talking about here, maybe I'll try it next time I need it. I keep a small bottle on hand, get it from my pharmacist, little bit pricey but not controlled.
     
  10. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    You can get areo kroil spray at some better auto parts. Call around. Also midway and natches. On other product is GM topend lubricant at the local gm dealer. Just a top end cleaner along with tectron, shell oils old adder.
     
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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  12. Chief RID

    Chief RID Member

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    There is no lead that can't be removed with the copper scrubber method. Why struggle?
     
  13. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Knockoff Chore Boy, there's the downfall, has to be the original, as the others are all copper washed steel.
    I'd change my lead mix and load, too, if you're getting leading that bad. I use wheel weights and moderate loads in my CZs and have experienced leading in one spot - the gas block of my vz-58, that's all.
     
  14. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    No, no, no, don't do it!

    I had a severely leaded Star 9MM that thwarted all of my efforts at removal. I did some googling found this same recipe online; it worked like a charm. When I later suggested this same stuff in a thread in another thread, someone replied saying that it also ate at steel. So, I took a piece of shotgun barrel I had laying around and let it soak in the solution for a day to see what happened. It really did a number on the steel.

    Armscor 9MM reloads were what messed me up, btw. I suggest avoiding lead-only bullets in any of the higher velocity calibers.
     
  15. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    Yeah, I didn't use the vinegar/peroxide thing. Was waiting to find other oils first.

    Bought some Deep Creep, and will be trying that soon.

    My load is wheel weights, over a light charge of Red Dot. Some of the older members have said that light RD charges have a tendancy to burn off lube before the bullet leaves the barrel. I've got a tumble-lube mold now (I didn't trust the single rearward lube groove in the non-TL style anyway) and will up the load a hair.
     
  16. webbee

    webbee Member

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    Looking for a deal on Kroil then check this thread.
     
  17. xcgates

    xcgates Member

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    Kroil works good, but I've never seen it in a brick and mortar, I bought it from some online site.

    Personally I live and die by PB Blaster, and given that my Subaru spent 11 years in the salt belt, that's saying something.

    Whatever you use, if it is a chemical, make sure you give it time to work. Don't just spray it on, the start scrubbing right away. Even a little heat (keep high heat away from plastics) can do the trick. Think heat gun, or even a really hot lamp.
     
  18. Weevil

    Weevil Member

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    Another vote for Kroil.

    I've been using it for years to get the lead out of my bores.

    There's a local bearing shop that stocks it, I buy a can every 3 or 4 years.


    Works great on rusty nuts and bolts too. ;)
     
  19. DBR

    DBR Member

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    I second the Lewis Lead Remover.

    Light loads and hard bullets may not obdurate the bullet (expand it) enough to seal the bore and prevent gas cutting.

    An article I read a long time ago, I think it was in American Rifleman, examined what bullet lube actually does with lead bullets. The conclusion was the lube was squeezed out of the lube grooves as the base of the bullet was compressed by the powder charge. The lube was more important as a gas seal than for lubing the bore. If the bullet is too hard or the pressure is too low it defeats this action.
     
  20. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Kroil works wonders. I got a can from Midway years ago. But seriously, for bad lead in your bore - Lewis Lead Remover.


    Red dot is a little too hot for lead, for my tastes anyway.
     
  21. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    I'll try Green Dot or W231 or something next time I need to buy some. For about 6.5 more pounds, I'm going to try and find a good lost with Red Dot.

    I've seen Kroil at the Shoot Straight off and on, but never when I'm looking for it and they want something like $35 for a quart. :barf:

    I'm going to try this Deep Creep before the next time I can carry the CZ.
     
  22. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    re: 50/50 peroxide and vinegar mix.

    So what's the problem? You said it worked like a charm.

    Okay, so if you leave the stuff in for 24 hours it corrodes the steel. That's why all the warnings say to leave it in for no more than 10 minutes. I have several bottles of store-bought copper and lead solvent that warn me not to leave in the bore for more than a few minutes at a time. I imagine it woud cause corrosion if left for a full day too. That doesn't make it bad stuff, it makes me a bad user. :(

    The 50-50 peroxide/vinegar solution works well when used properly. That said, I only use it on stainless barrels that can be removed from the gun. And I haven't used it in a long time since the chore-boy trick works just as well.
     
  23. bogie

    bogie Member

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    I really like Kroil - The stuff is safe to use, and will crawl behind a whole lot of stuff.
     
  24. Firehand

    Firehand Member

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    A while back Pop. Mechanics had a piece that tested different penetrating oils, and said the very best was a homemade: 50/50 acetone and automatic transmission fluid. Haven't had occasion to try this as yet, so can't speak from personal experience.
     
  25. hiawatha

    hiawatha Member

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    Yet another vote for Kroil. The 50-50 acetone/ATF is exactly half of a concoction known as Ed's Red. That stuff is 25-25-25-25 acetone, ATF, kerosene, and mineral spirits. Using that stuff, I'm actually beginning to see some shine on the lands in a very old Arisaka T38 that went through the Japanese campaign in north China and was also used by the Min Bing. Nobody in China paid much attention to cleaning the poor thing!
     
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