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AD from a smart carry type holster

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by loneviking, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    I'm not eager to post this, but an airline pilot friend of mine told me that my AD changed his mind about how he carries on duty, and maybe my story will change someone elses' mind as well.

    Friday, Sep. 5 is a day I will long remember. I'm 47 y/o, married, father of three (10,18,20 y/o olds) and I've been shooting since I was ten. I've never had an AD or ND; I've never been injured by a firearm. I'm the type that triple checks for safety; the type that reads the manuals of a firearm to know how it operates.

    This spring, I bought a CZ 82 which is a Makarov design, 9mm Makarov caliber pistol. I've shot the CZ 75's on several occasions and I like the simplicity of the CZ design along with the all steel frame. I'm not a big fan of autoloaders, as they have a propensity for AD/ND that revolvers don't have. But, I figured the little gun would be a good BUG and good for the wife or girls to shoot and/or carry. At the time, I only had one handgun and that was my full size, Colt .357.

    One big problem with the CZ 82 is finding a holster. I had looked at a lot of holsters and was intrigued with the Smart Carry holster for deep concealment. Reno had a big gun show at the end of August, and I had hoped to find the folks from Smart Carry there so I could look at their holsters 'up close'. Instead, I found someone selling a nylon version of this holster. He claimed that this holster was thinner and the nylon was tougher than the Smart Carry material, so the holster would last longer. At $30 the price was right, and the CZ snuggled into the pocket like it was made for it.

    The holster looked like this:

    http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/loneviking/Picture002.jpg

    So, I tried out the holster first with the gun empty. I normally carry the CZ 'cocked and locked', and I wanted to make sure the manual safety wouldn't come off. The problem I had was that the gun wanted to slide into a 45 degree angle with that double stack grip canted over on the right side, which was uncomfortable. Anyway, the gun seemed to carry safely with the manual safety staying on, but the problem was comfort. I wasn't carrying with the gun trapped under my belt, it was below the belt and not comfortable.

    I pulled up the Smart Carry site and the video they have of putting on a Smart Carry rig and tried that technique, which seemed to work. You have the gun carried on the centerline of your body, with the grip under (or just below) your belt and the barrel pointed straight down. On the morning of the accident, this is how I was carrying the weapon.

    Friday morning and I've put the holster on, slipped the gun into the pouch and I'm planning to go to town on errands. The dogs are bugging me to go for a walk along the river, and I figure it won't take that much time. We live on a hill above a small river, so I take the dogs and head out down the dirt road to the river. At the river, I check the guns' safety, and it's still on (remember, this is a new position for me to carry it in).

    I walked for three or four hundred yards along the river, as usual. Coming back there is a point at which I have to stop and pull the stickers out of my little Schnauzers fur. I squatted down to pull the stickers, and the weapon discharged one round into my groin.

    Part one....part two in the next post.....
     
  2. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    When the weapon discharged, I remember standing up and yanking the weapon out of my pants, wondering just what the #$%^ had happened. It's an odd feeling being shot. The body is screaming that it's in trouble while the mind is racing to catch up on what just happened.

    I realized I was bleeding pretty good, but not enough to have hit an artery. I safed the weapon, stuck it behind my back and put pressure on the wound. I then discovered a big mistake I had made---no cell phone! I had to walk back, about 1/4 mile to the house to roust my daughters and call 911.

    I'll make a long story short in that I was Careflighted to a trauma center where a very good surgeon took three hours to repair the damage. The round was a 95 gr. Hornady XTP that patially fragmented. I had three holes in my penis and a smashed left testicle. I know this is a bit graphic, but especially the guys need to realize what can happen when you carry a gun 'ready to go' inside your pants.

    I was discharged the next Monday, and a full recovery is expected. The blown out bottom of the holster looks like this:

    http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/loneviking/Picture001.jpg

    Folks, everybody needs to be really careful not only how they carry, but in what they carry. I can only figure that having the slide under the belt allowed the safety to come off leaving the gun cocked. The holster material was very thin, which apparently allowed the heavy denim of my jeans to bunch into the trigger guard and set the gun off.

    One of the rules of choosing a holster is to get one that covers the trigger guard---but you also need one that is made of a material stiff enough to prevent anything from pushing on that trigger!

    You also really need to think about a worst case scenario if you're carrying a semi-auto IWB that is ready to fire. Is that really a good idea? Or would a revolver be a better choice. I know that some jurisdictions have rules on firearm carry that make it almost impossible to carry except in deep concealment. But do yourself a favor and carry as safely as possible.

    My airline pilot friend decided not to carry an auto-loader in an IWB after hearing what happened. He instead will be carrying his Ruger SP101 in a cross draw rig when he's piloting the commercial airlines he flies. I hope my story gets others to thinking about the consequences of how we carry.
     
  3. Treo

    Treo member

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    The CZ -82 has a DA carry option. I never carry condition one that close to "the package"
     
  4. Dave P

    Dave P Member

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    Ouch. Thanks for sharing.
     
  5. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Good safety lesson, but I don't think that I would lump all IWB holsters in with a SmartCarry knockoff, and besides I don't carry anything cocked and locked, for the exact reason you discovered, every time I have tried it I can't stop checking to make sure it is still on safe so I eventually decock and carry DA.

    You walked a quarter mile with a smashed testicle? Good job getting home and getting it taken care of.
     
  6. chupacabrah

    chupacabrah Member

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    wow....

    how is "everything" now?


    I've never had a problem IWB with my DAO M&P... Never carried C&L, but I plan to. I think a quality holster is the main thing, and probably the major reason for this AD.

    Or was it gun failure related at all?
     
  7. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    This was, IMO, totally holster related with the nylon material being too thin. Although this gun was C&L, there's not much difference between that and the numerous autos today that have no external safeties, but you just 'point and shoot'. Granted, the trigger pull is going to be heavier, but is it heavy enough?
     
  8. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    As for 'how are things now'? Well, I get the catheter out on Thursday and all signs point to success at keeping it out. Early signs strongly indicate that I also won't need to fill a prescription for Viagra any time soon! :D
     
  9. Linda

    Linda Member

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    Wow! :eek: Thank god you survived to tell about it. You will be in my prayers that you recover quickly.
     
  10. Mainsail

    Mainsail Member

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    pssst, open carry is legal in NV, deep concealment wasn't needed.

    Glad to hear you survived!
     
  11. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Good luck with your catheter removal, I'll keep you in my mind on thursday!

    As far as heavier DA pull, some of the "DA Only" pistols like Glocks and maybe M&Ps actually have a very light and short trigger, nothing like an actual DAO. I would never carry one of those in a poor holster, they are not forgiving. However, I just got a Kydex pocket holster from FIST for my Glock 27, I feel totally comfortable with that, since the Kydex is NOT going to allow anything in there to play with the trigger.
     
  12. luckyrxc

    luckyrxc Member

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    Thanks

    Thanks for sharing your experience. Best to a speedy and full recovery.
     
  13. Phydeaux642

    Phydeaux642 Member

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    Wow! Glad you are going to make a full recovery.

    I use the Smartcarry with no issues. My formula is:

    Smartcarry + DAO 642 = No Problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  14. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Member

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    wow. i wish you the best in your recovery.

    i do often carry in the front with a clipdraw, but it's on an SP101 that i have absolutely no fear of the extremely heavy trigger being pulled unintentionally. if i were carrying C&L, i think i'd need to reconsider my choice. thanks for the sobering input on the dangers of carrying without firmly securing the entire trigger guard area.
     
  15. Armed 24/7

    Armed 24/7 Member

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    I was under the understanding that the FFDO's (Federal Flight Deck Officers) could ONLY carry their issued HK's?
     
  16. REPOMAN

    REPOMAN Member

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    Thanks for the share..... My prayers for a speedy recovery....
     
  17. Dope

    Dope Member

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    Ouch. Glad to hear you will make it through "okay". I have been heavily researching smartcarry-style holsters and manual safety handguns are one of the first things I discounted due to exactly this problem. Way too easy for the safety to come off.

    I've often wondered if you could somehow sew a real holster into the smartcarry "pocket". Something that covers the trigger. I would think this would keep it a little more stable too instead of bouncing around in the pocket.

    Dope
     
  18. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    That isn't a bad idea, especially since you could get something like the FIST pocket holster, the kydex is incredibly thin, which you want, then maybe reheat the thumb-push and make it a little lower profile for your skins sake.
     
  19. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    This guy is a commercial airline pilot. Both of the weapons mentioned are his own. I've never heard of an officially issued firearm to the pilots.
     
  20. alistaire

    alistaire Member

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    Aren't you glad that was not a .45?
     
  21. Purple95

    Purple95 Member

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    loneviking,

    Best wishes for a complete recovery. My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

    I'm sure many are re-evaluating their carry practices and equipment after reading your story, I know I am.

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Take care,
    dan :)
     
  22. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Not to be a smart ass or to annoy the OP (glad your OK), but buy a "real" Smart Carry and I doubt you'll have any troubles. The one in the pic looks a little shaky, and on the cheaper side. Another $20 and you could have had a real one. The Smart Carry's are a bit heavier material wise, and there is little to no movement of the gun in it if its the right gun for the holster.

    I've carried a 642, P230, or Seecamp (mostly the Seecamp lately) daily for the past two years. I work in construction, and I'm very physical at work, and jump in and out of all sorts of machines, into and out of trenches and structures, etc, so the holster and gun have gotten a good workout for both safety and security. I wear mine just slightly offset to the left, just below the belt.

    Its kind of hard to see here, but the material is more or less a double thickness and the backing is waterproof. It really is too, cause I sweat like a pig and I've never had a drop of moisture on the inside of the pouch, even when I'm soaking wet on the 95*+, humid days we get here in the summer.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    Very glad!!:uhoh:
     
  24. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    The problem with the real rig is the thickness. Don't you have to wear your pants one or two sizes larger to fit? The rig looks like wearing a diaper in reverse!

    And you're right---someone may not have any problems. The point is that there are all sorts of holsters out there, including some 'knock-offs' of better known holsters. Holsters don't come with 'UL' testing labels or a 'Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval'---and I'm not saying they should.

    But, there are a lot of new people getting carry permits and can you imagine how tough it is for someone who has only a few weeks experience with guns to decide which holster to buy? Which holster might be safe? What condition to carry the gun in?

    Everyone, I hope, realizes that there is a broad spectrum of safety that ranges from ultra safe (a revolver on a OWB belt holster from a reputable maker) to what I had. It's 'caveat emptor', and the only way to decide is to ask around and see what everyone is doing---which may or not be safe.

    And that's why I posted what happened to me...
     
  25. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    The thickness is what makes it safer and more comfortable.

    I wear my normal pants (Carhartt's or similar) and size with the Smart Carry, and I usually also have a P229 in a Blade Tech IWB on at the same time too. I dont care what it looks like, hell, it could look like your Grandma's undies, I wouldnt care, no one sees it and it works, and it works very well too.

    I think its great you posted and I'm glad you did. Its one of the best ways we can help each other, and perhaps save someone else the pain and suffering on the extreme end, and maybe just the embarrassment on the other if your holster, or whatever fails and you just get made.

    The problem with holsters is, unless you have one to try first hand, you never know how well, if at all, its going to work for you personally. They often turn out not to be what you were expecting and come up short. Thats why we all have a holster box somewhere.

    Like most other things, you do get what you pay for, and the deals (unless its a real deal on the real thing) and copies usually arent, especially when you compare them to the real thing. I learned a long time ago to buy the good name stuff that has a reputation for quality, that I shouldnt or couldnt really afford, right off. It was almost always worth the extra cost, even if I couldnt really afford it, and actually cheaper in the long run, because I didnt have to keep buying cheap stuff that kept failing. What happened to you should help reinforce that for others who think they cant afford the good stuff. You cant afford to buy the cheap stuff, and if you insist on doing so, you'll be lucky if its just your ego or feelings that suffers.

    Like I said before, glad your OK, and I hope we all learned (or reinforced) something from your experience.
     
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