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Advice Needed - Outdoor Carry

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by swilcoxaz, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. swilcoxaz

    swilcoxaz Member

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    I need a bit of advice for an upcoming project. I will be conducting an environmental survey from Tucson, AZ to the Mexican border for the next few weeks.

    The area I'll be working in is known as "Cocaine Alley" and "OTM Alley" - meaning Other Than Mexican Alley - because of the large number of non-Mexican illegal aliens historically apprehended in the area. Sounds fun, huh?

    In addition, there is a group known as "the Minutemen", a group of armed civilians who patrol the border trying to aprehend Illegals trying to cross the border. They take it pretty seriously too. The border patrol maintains a large presence as well.

    There will be a crew of three, two males and a female, walking along the route of a proposed pipeline from Tucson to the Mexican border. I don't know which sounds more menacing - the illegals, the drug runners, or the minutemen. :eek:

    My question is this: I am an Arizona Resident and have a CCW. In any case, to avoid any potential conflicts, would it be more prudent to wear my sidearm exposed or concealed? Would an exposed weapon be more likely to avoid or provoke trouble? We plan on minding our own business and hope to keep it that way. Thanks for your input.
     
  2. AFhack

    AFhack Member

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    I'd carry openly in that area of the country... but only you can determine if it's right for you or not.


    BTW - I was under the impression that the minute men were an unarmed group?
     
  3. mbs357

    mbs357 Member

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    I was under the impression that while the Minute Men weren't issued weapons they could carry concealed if they had a permit.
    And maybe they could carry rifles they owned with them.
     
  4. GoBrush

    GoBrush Member

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    CARRY CONCEALED! Not even a question in my book

    No need for anyone to know unless approached by official border patrol or other local LEO.

    No reason to advertise;)

    Be safe and take lots of water!
     
  5. swilcoxaz

    swilcoxaz Member

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    Open carry is legal and common in Arizona. As I understand it, mbs357 is correct, the minutemen can be armed, just like anyone else.

    I can see both sides, open and concealed... keep the advice coming!


    Here is a link to info on the area, if anyone cares to take a look:

    http://www.desertinvasion.us/invasio...on_sasabe.html
     
  6. AFhack

    AFhack Member

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    you're right mbs - just did some more research - and they can and do carry in accordance with local laws. So in Arizona and New Mexico they're pretty much able to carry anything they legally can (both are open carry states). Sorry I misrepresented that earlier.


    I still think I'd open carry in the OP's area of concern. I've lived in Southern New Mexico (Alamogordo) for over 8 years now and I can't think of a valid reason to carry concealed here.... it's very rural, crime rates are low, and valid natural threats that might require handgun use (coyote, snake, runaway horse with one of your feet still in the stirrup) usually require a draw faster than concealed carry allow.

    Now, if I were in a bigger city, or in and out of populated areas a lot more frequently, or even just in an area that wasn't used to seeing guns on people's hips, then I'd probably agree that concealed is the way to go.
     
  7. RangerHAAF

    RangerHAAF Member

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    My personal opinion would be to carry openly, so there's no surprises for anyone; LE, civilians, illegal aliens or drug runners.
     
  8. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    Both: Open may keep someone from "messing" with you or someone could get the drop on you before you're aware of them and rob you of your weapon, or worse. So carry a concealed BUG! And water, and matches, and a first aide kit, and comm, and........................

    Stay safe.
    Bob

    PS: Sunscreen!
     
  9. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    I too, think I would exercise the great state of Arizona's right to carry openly
    law. Could discourage some potential problems.:uhoh: :D
     
  10. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    if you can't make this distinction, maybe ccw isn't such a hot idea for you
     
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I'd carry openly, if only because it's a lot easier to carry more gun more comfortably in a hip holster.

    Lumping the Minutemen in with the illegal aliens and drug donkeys is insulting. The Minutemen are on America's side.
     
  12. GoBrush

    GoBrush Member

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    Ranger not quite following you here please explain. You dont want to surprise illegal aliens or drug runners????????

    Arizona or not you have a CCW for a reason exersise that right! If Arizona open carry is such a great idea why not walk in down town Phoenix open carry?

    What makes the middle of the desert any different? Someone please inlighten me here cause I would really like to know the rational.

    I just dont get it?:confused:
     
  13. swilcoxaz

    swilcoxaz Member

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    not meant to be insulting

    Taliv and Standing Wolf - I wasn't lumping minutemen with drug donkeys and illegals. I meant that we'll be walking across open desert wearing backpacks, which might get a bit of attention from them - particularly while heading north.

    The debate in my head is whether open carry would discourge or attract trouble from anyone, including border patrol and minutemen.
     
  14. Lone Tundra Wolf

    Lone Tundra Wolf Member

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    No matter how you carry.... make sure you stay on the U. S. Side of the border....or they will have a field day with you.
     
  15. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    oh, i see. you meant you thought the minutemen might mistake you for illegals. my mistake

    if it were me, i'd go concealed if i'm just carrying a pistol. i'd have a rifle in the truck or slung if possible (i.e. you're not carrying too much other stuff)
     
  16. swilcoxaz

    swilcoxaz Member

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    Taliv, yeah. Considering that my two crew members are Native American, and could easily be mistaken for Hispanic, that is a concern. I'm sure security along the border is heightened this time of year, as many Mexicans return home for Christmas and are making their way back up about now.

    The other group to be concerned about is a group of volunteers who leave water for the people crossing the desert (although they're not as active in the winter). Understandably, they are at odds with the minutemen. So, we'll be entering an area where tensions are high and there are several groups who don't exactly get along. We'll be the strangers in the middle of it all.

    A long gun wouln't exactly fit our situation. My choices in sidearms are a Springfield 1911-A1 or Beretta 92FS and for backup a .38 snubbie or CZ75 Compact. Is this a good time for a .45 vs. 9mm debate? ;)
     
  17. SilentStalker

    SilentStalker Member

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    My opinion, carry both. Both circumstances have their plus sides and minus sides which have all been listed. However, IMO if you can carry concealed and open at the same time then you get the best of both worlds LOL, as long as you can put up with the extra weight.
     
  18. Nathan67

    Nathan67 Member

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    ok, you are enlightened
     
  19. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    If you do decide to carry openly, be sure to have a concealed back up gun!
     
  20. carebear

    carebear Member

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    Open carry and "official looking" clothing, and obvious radios, could lead all involved to steer clear of you.

    The bad guys will hopefully think your are BP or "immigre" or at least just "armed and dangerous" and give you a wide berth and the good guys should give you the benefit of the doubt the more "official and American" you appear.

    GoBrush,

    I know there are people who open carry in downtown Phoenix. Do a search on open carry on the forums and you'll get both sides arguments for and against.
     
  21. lawson

    lawson Member

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    while trekking through the desert, open carry is going to be a lot more comfortable. while hunting, hiking, or whatever i'm doing in the desert, i always carry my .357 on my hip. i usually carry a snubbie concealed on my ankle, in a holster that laces to my boots for extra stability.

    i open carry every now and then in town even, though my hip holster is often concealed by a jacket during winter. i feel it's important to exercise the right to carry openly, as well as the right to carry concealed.
     
  22. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    First of all, don't believe any of the nonsense you hear about the minutemen from the mainstream news sources. There's a concerted effort to cast them as vigillantes by a lot of people who have a lot of $$$ to gain by continuing the status quo, from walmart and the agribusinesses to the Bush administration.

    As far as what to carry. If at all possible, openly carry a RIFLE in .223 or better. A handgun will have limited utility if you're in a real firefight in that open country.
     
  23. Mad Chemist

    Mad Chemist Member

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    +1 At least one member of your group needs to be able to "reach out and touch someone" if necessary. Coyotes aren't just smugglers, they're thieves and murderers as well.
    Happy Trails.
    JH
     
  24. xring44

    xring44 Member

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    I think the prudent thing to do would be contact the Border Patrol, inform them of your job, your arrival date, your indian workers, ask them to pass along the imformation to the minutemen and go well heeled.
     
  25. Janitor

    Janitor Senior Member

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    I don't believe the Minutemen will try and aprehend or detain anyone. AFIK, if they suspect you of being an illegal, they'll radio your position in to the BP. They are very much the good guys and any of them that are carrying, are doing so for the same reasons you want to.

    Out in the 'whoop' where you'll be, I'd have zero reservations about carrying open. It will be much more comfortable, and allow you to carry about as much sidearm as you'd like. Plus, as has been pointed out already, deployment is much easier/quicker from an open OWB holster than from a tuckable.

    I saw your choices, and you'll need to make your own from that. Myself, I'd like to be carrying a nice 4" .44 magnum N frame.

    Then, as others have mentioned - a BUG behind it. It's just tactically smoother.
    -
     
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