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After several buys, my online resolution 2020

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by erniegarcia4, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. erniegarcia4

    erniegarcia4 Member

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    Lessons learned in conclusion after recieving used, demo, retured used guns, that were reboxed sold as new 20% of the time, from 3 online vendors has been tiresome and depressing. The names of the vendors make no difference suffice it to say stay away from small discount promised advertisers and stick with large cooperate vendors with big history like Brownells with while costing a bit more never ever burned me, in fact quite the opposite. Having said that my 2020 resolution is to buy new or used guns never from blind online vendors, but only in the flesh with bore light and erosion gauge in hand and an eye for ware/tear and marred screws...
    So what was the final straw that has brought me to this resolution? The following is my notification letter for which of course I've not recieved or expect to receive a reply.....
    "Customer FYI. The firearm 6.5 creedmore bolt arrived and appeared to be in order, however only after careful bench inspection was it clearly obvious that the rifle had been fired far beyond the normal factory test. In fact taking several bronze bruising and repeated patch cleaning was the HB rifling clearly visible showing signs of bore erosion at the chamber (I've ordered a 6.5 gauge). In addition the tactical picatinny rail shows multiple and repeated drag marks from the mounting and dismounting of a scope or scopes. In addition the trigger mechanism hex bolts show signs of marred wear compared to the rest of the rifle with the trigger pull reset below the factory adverised setting... Understand I'm not making any accusations only stating the facts and warnings. In fact I actually blame myself trusting another discount dealer. Never againe will I make online blind firearms purchases, except perhaps Brownells who has always been trustworthy.
    Very Respectfully,
    CWO4 USN/CG Ret
     
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  2. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Always look over the gun before filling out the 4473, problem solved. Reject it at the FFL if it's not the condition stated when purchased.

    Sorry that it happened to you though.
     
  3. Jack B.

    Jack B. Member

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    I never buy gun or gun parts online. I pay a little more from the LGS to walkout with what I need in hand after it has been inspected by me. Plus I'm helping the LGS stay in business.
     
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  4. erniegarcia4

    erniegarcia4 Member

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    You can't alway do a comprehensive close inspection. I.e. clean the rifle to see how dirty it is beyond factory test. Disassembly for signs of modification or tampering, it's beyond the scope of a seasoned armory tech. But of course acceptable to the novice having no clue. Nevertheless I realize this is a tight margin industry, bread and butter sensitive. I just don't want to be the one born every minute paying for it any longer. The resolution remains great advice taken or rebuked.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  5. erniegarcia4

    erniegarcia4 Member

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    To your credit I almost hate to admit your right. I'm a business man myself with a Christian work ethic so my customers love me. And while most of my online buys have been great, it only takes a few burns to spoil it for the good Sam's. I have too many anyway lol and need to get a table at the next show. But I promise you I'll be declaring everthing I've discovered. Ironically when I do get a table my resales are so reasonable the show dealers buy them up during set up. Probubly to sell them online lol!
     
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  6. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Only guns I've bought online were bp. All new save one. That one had 10 pics and I downloaded all of them so I could zoom in on them and studied them for right at 4 hours along with looking up all the markings. Only then did I hit the buy button. As far as modern, I'll never buy one I've not put my hands and eyes on new or used no matter the seller.
     
  7. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    I was mainly stating that the above bold parts of the problems should be easily seen at point of transfer at FFL. Not trying to prove a point just putting it out there that people should look over the firearms before filling out the 4473. It is certainly your right to not buy guns online, and its not a bad policy. There is validity in supporting the local FFL's, but there are a lot of guns out there that aren't available locally that are available to me online. I've had really good luck buying firearms online, but I'm not a volume buyer in any stretch of the imagination so maybe my experience isn't valid.

    Again, not trying to be argumentative, but I know there are a lot of folks who just start the 4473 process without checking things out. And that does not have to be the chain of events when making a purchase online.
     
  8. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    The only firearm I purchased online was a Marlin 1894 lever action that was, according to the serial number, made in 1996. The seller had several photos that I enlarged, plus I emailed the gentleman to discuss payment options. He was amenable to my use of a check instead of plastic and he didn't delay shipment more than 3-4 days after receiving the check. There are some slight dings in the wood but nothing I wouldn't expect from a 20 y.o. rifle. The insides were clean and bright, rifling looked good, trigger pull weight about 4 lbs. and no sign of any rust. It is also a "JM" stamped barrel so I also avoided the problems of the "Remlin" versions a few years later. :)
     
  9. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I bought my first firearm online Nov 5th. I received it Nov 29th after it was sent to the wrong gun store in a wrong state. Thankfully it arrived in perfect condition. Unless I am getting something incredibly specific, I will not be buying firearms online very much.
     
  10. Virginia Jim

    Virginia Jim Member

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    I have bought over 30 used firearms on Gunbroker. Only one, a Glock 17, had any faults that I didn’t discover prior to bidding.
    Check feedback, talk on phone to seller, ask for and scrutinize more pictures, etc.
    Due diligence.
     
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  11. erniegarcia4

    erniegarcia4 Member

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    Well of course Gunbroker is a whole different business model like Ebay giving much more control to both the direct seller to buyer for mostly used guns, and a built in incentive to deal fairly. An attempt to willfully defraud on Gunbroker and that person seller or buyer are deplatformed. But yes I've heard nothing but good things about them.
     
  12. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    Happened to me once; rather expensive handgun advertised as factory new for a reasonable price - arrival was a handgun that looked like it had been shot a thousand times. I sent photos and I was not challenged - I received a “new” model in it’s place - I am guessing the first example was a display or range gun - always buyer beware.
     
  13. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy member

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    I've never had any problems with NEW guns from reputable sites.

    You check the gun as best you can before the 4473, no different than if you just purchased a gun at the FFL.

    This really falls on the buyer regardless of an online purchase or local. You can do the same in store checks on a online purchase as you can do on a LGS purchase, theres literally zero difference. Anything you miss it doesnt matter as no one does returns on gun purchases after the fact.

    I really dont understand what all the fuss is about...
     
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  14. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Agreed, I don't know how there is a difference either.
     
  15. George P

    George P Member

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    I have purchased both new and used online, the last being an $11,000 used shotgun (that I got for a much better price) - my only bad experience was my fault on another used shotgun - the gun itself was fine, except the LOP was way too short. That was MY fault for not asking the seller what it was ahead of time. Became my wife's gun for a while
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  16. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    Some of us live in LGS dead zones and have little choice.

    The nearest LGS in my state with decent inventory is 50 miles away. Add the fuel cost to the extra $50 to $150 of the firearm cost and it is quite cost-prohibitive to try and buy "local".

    In the past five years, out of the couple dozen firearms I've purchased, only two were over the counter. And out of all the guns I've bought in that time frame, the only one that had to go back to the factory was one purchased at an LGS. It was a S&W Shield with a bad barrel that wasn't discovered until I detail stripped it.

    I buy mostly from Bud's, CDNN, PSA, and Whittaker Arms and have had nothing but great results.
     
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  17. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    We sell through many online sites as well as our own website. Companies can vary wildly in their integrity and honesty. We sell both new and used guns. To us a used gun is one that comes across the pawn counter and a new one is one we order in from a distributor.

    No matter how good a gun bought from a customer looks we will never sell it as new. After all, there is a paper trail. if someone challenged my claim that a used gun was new, it'd be pretty easy to prove it isn't, even if the gun is unfired.

    I have photographed guns upon inquiry about specific details for a customer, had a question about a muzzle loader that we have for sale. I don't believe the gun was ever fired. Came in with a beat up box but otherwise the gun was clean. Customer got back pictures of an oiled patch fresh run through the barrel without a speck of carbon on it. I said I believed the gun never had been fired and I do believe that, but it's still a used gun.
    I can't understand misleading and essentially defrauding a customer. Sure hurts repeat sales.
     
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  18. erniegarcia4

    erniegarcia4 Member

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    Well I've emailed them back twice with the facts and they won't return. So I'll probubly contact my Visa card company next. But yeah I've learned my lesson and it's a ethically falling world we're now living in so I'm not supprised just disapointed.
     
  19. george29

    george29 Member

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    I've been lucky for the most part buying from private parties but I'm a realist. I don't do it anymore because everything internet related has become dangerous. The last time it took the guy 6 weeks to send me my purchase and that's when I swore off internet sales. I currently am selling off stuff online but just in this forum and this is a first for me because you guys know guns too well and I could always make more using gunbroker even with the fees.
     
  20. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I consider that distance to be a great excuse for a road trip! :D
     
  21. Lucky Derby

    Lucky Derby Member

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    I've made two online gun purchases.
    The first was actually a trade. My rifle for his. We each paid shipping and FFL on our end. This started as a WTT ad I posted on another forum. The gun itself was just as promised. The guy I dealt with was a PITA, from the very beginning. Complained about everything. Complained about my FFL's choice of shipper (USPS). Complained that their tracking wasn't up to his standards. This was about 10 years ago. There was no discussion of this prior to shipping. There were other complaints too. I don't recall the details. I swore then that I would never do an online gun deal again.
    About 4 years ago I finally bought something else. A S&W 28-2 in box. Too good to be true at the price. I took a chance. This was on gun broker from a FFL in Minnesota. Gun was exactly as described. No issues with the seller or otherwise.
    I rarely buy new, and prefer to buy local when possible.
     
  22. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    We, LGS folks, thank you for your local business.
    That said, we understand if you're looking for a left handed semi-bolt Acme pump rifle and there isn't one in the area, we're glad to facilitate your purchase of that one from Kalamazoo. Just like any business, there's good 'uns and not so good 'uns. Glad you picked good ones to deal with.
     
  23. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    While I understand that you’re upset with the seller, he may have gotten the gun back as a return and simply never checked it. If it was a sizable outfit, they probably don’t check everything.
     
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