After the Home Defense Shooting

Last night my wife and I decided to binge watch some old Magnum PI episodes. One episode had to do with a case where a model had supposedly committed suicide with a 12 gauge. Magnum, with the assistance of Higgins, determined there was no way a shotgun was used due to the lack of damage to the body and scene.

This got me to thinking about the handgun vs rifle vs shotgun for home defense debates which come up time to time on The Highroad and other such boards. Subjects such as "stopping power", overpenetration, legalities, muzzle flash, hearing damage, and moving around a house with a long gun vs a handgun are standard fare for these discussions. But what about the post-shooting mess?

I have been to several scenes where someone was shot with a shotgun inside a home. Some were suicides, some were domestic disputes, and one was a home defense incident. The all had one thing in common: lots of blood and human flesh strewn about.

A load of buckshot is devastating at home defense distance. It leaves human remains on the floor, walls, ceiling, furnishings, etc. The victim will never completely leave the scene and you may never again feel your home is clean or livable. And if the range was close, there is the smell of burnt human flesh that tends to be difficult to remove. One the other hand, the shootings I have been to where a handgun was used tended to be much less of a mess.

Should this be a factor in choosing a home defense firearm? I firmly believe the shotgun is the king of stopping power at home defense distance. But if one can get the job done with a 9mm carbine or a handgun without all the collateral damage, should that suffice?

 

Good question. I don't think this should be part of the defense consideration, but there needs to be a plan for phase 2. There are some contractors who specialize in cleaning biohazard messes, but I'm not sure that it is worth having one on speed dial. I guess you could get estimates based on square foot size of your home and some assumptions. That's not one of the main fees that everyone talks about post-SD experience.

Depending on how bad the situation was, you may not be able to get over the violence and reminders in that building. It should be OK to sell and find a new home.

 

"Collateral" damage to my house or the home invader is not a consideration in selecting my home defense firearms. Which include a Mossberg 590 loaded with buckshot. My home is my castle and I'm not leaving.

 

FFE... stop the attack... I personally don't consider anything other than "stopping" the attack with the most aggressive force I feel confident using... Fire for effect... I'll have much more to think about "after" the incident... Thankful me and my family are still alive is prolly at the top of that list... But I do get your point... Everything has it's consequences

 

IMHO, no - but, I would get some people or hire someone to clean it up before going back to the home.

 

I will hire a contractor to strip and rebuild the area down to the studs and subfloor after the danger has passed, and happily send the bill to my insurance company. There’s a reason I’ve been paying them $1k+ every year since we bought the place.

 

Given the odds of you ever actually using it I would say no

 

I HAVE thought about this. I have seen many photos from home invasion shootings.

My FIRST thought is: azzhat in my home, middle of the night! Bad situation needs to ends now. Shotgun makes a mess, but situation is over. #1 priority, protect family, end situation.

 

Sometimes folks report that it isn't the clean up but the psychological aspects as the family doesn't feel safe in the home anymore and the sight of the 'shooting and killing' brings back flashbacks. Thus, leading to a move.

Someone else might or might not care about that when buying the property. I know someone who bought a house where a high ranking clergyman was gruesomely killed by his special 'friend'. We played poker where it happened. A touch weird but so what.

As far as the gun choice, my answer is what do you use best in such scenarios, which can be tested in competitions and class. Abstract discussion of 'stopping power' needs to interact with your ability to run the gun.

 

If one has the opportunity to choose between a shotgun and a handgun for personal defense at close ranges, the shotgun is the pretty clear choice. It is much, much, more likely to incapacitate an attacker than is a handgun and that is your objective in a defensive shooting.

Throughout my days in service as a LEO, whenever I rolled to a scene where there was any increased potential for deadly force, the shotgun was always desired and there were very few conditions that would argue against its deployment. When you're considering the safety of life, issues of "messiness" or collateral property damage simply are not considerations. In considering the safety of unintended targets downrange, buckshot is more likely to be stopped by walls and other objects that are most handgun rounds.

I'll echo earlier comments about the "Bio-Hazard" issues present at a post shooting scene. Pretty much plan on the clean-up requiring the stripping of all internal surfaces down to the framing and then new finish surfaces being installed. Small price to pay and its gonna be covered by insurance. I once served as an assisting unit at one shooting where the suspect's office was filled with tear gas, and where he was ultimately killed with a shotgun blast. I often stopped by to observe the repairs made to the office building. The contractor took everything down to the the studs and rafters. You could still just barely smell the tear gas. But once new flooring and drywall was in place, you really could not not tell what had happened there.

 

Any life or death confrontation is a crap shoot.. That’s why we keep our weapons in good shape and train to be able to function properly when you’re in deadly danger - and can hardly breathe or think clearly…

In real life, a killing shot or shots may not stop an offender from hurting or killing you or your loved ones before they’re brought down. That’s why I preferred a standard riot gun as a cop and still do today, years into retirement and no longer looking for trouble the way I did on the street years ago. Used properly, an ordinary 12 ga shotgun is a one shot fight ender, period, at close range (under 15 meters). I’ll worry about the mess later.

The truth is you’ll use any kind of weapon to defend your life if needed, and pray you’re never in that situation. I guarantee you won’t like all the stuff you’ll be dealing with afterwards, so do your best to avoid it if at all possible… The condition of your residence afterwards will be the least of your problems…

 

Somewhere I picked up a stat that the majority of home invasions take place with more than one perp. If that is so and I happened to buy it, I went from my 6 shot buckshot shotgun to a built AR one five with 31 stoppers.
It has a red dot, co-witness sights and an illuminator if needed.
Just my humble opinion.

 

Sawed off 1300 with mini buck shells is the way to go. The 1300 although an old design runs mini shells like it was specifically designed for them. It's pretty compact, 6 pellets of 00 at 900fps is bad news, no cataclysmic muzzle blast, gun holds 8.
If you want cataclysmic muzzle blast a 3 inch magnum slug out of a 13 inch barrel will make a fire ball about the size and shape of a large watermelon.

 

When humans or animals are shot with anything, there is generally a mess. Anyone who has tracked a deer shot through the lungs or guts knows this- the mess left along the way is usually how we find them when they run, and when we finally do find that deer, it is almost always laying in a puddle. No difference with people. I have had to clean our hummers and other vehicles out in afg. with pressure washers and buckets of hot water and big brushes. I wonder if a home insurance policy would cover things like replacement of carpets, paint, sheetrock, etc. if such a mess was made in someone's house? I suppose it would depend on the policy.

 

Sometimes it is an overwhelming mess. Our MRAPS either missed the worst of the mess or were completely burned out so I never had to deal with the pressure washing.

I think you bring up a great point with homeowner's insurance. I may need to read the small print for exclusions.

 

Use enough gun. There is always going to be blood and gore, but the threat has to be stopped. I been to enough scenes, and shot enough animals to fully realize the mess that will be there. The psychological impact for you and/or family members will be much more significant than the mess. Servicemaster can make it all go away, but the brain's propensity to play it back, flash back, or trigger on innocuous stimulus can't be overcome sometimes. If the rare instance occurs, you will likely move.

 

You are definitely correct. A rifle or shotgun at close range will leave far more flesh and blood splattered around than one would ever suspect. Much more than the typical splatter shown in the movies. For that matter even a handgun will make quite a mess depending on how many rounds were fired and where they hit. Sometimes people tend to think it's similar to what they see when shooting an animal; it's not. The psychological cost of being the cause of that, or even just seeing it is not to be underestimated.

I'll use whatever weapon I need for the situation be it rifle, shotgun, or handgun, but rest assured I'll never pull the trigger on a person without there being absolutely no other way to save my life.

 

As noted by folks on this thread - there will be significant aftershock from a shooting incident (and it will be much greater if the scene is your residence or other place you're in every day..). If anyone can find it, the book Street Survival has an entire chapter dedicated to what you might be dealing with after a shooting.... The book is meant for cops - but it's a great starting point for any armed citizen as well... in my opinion..

In my case, it was a pivotal moment in my life... and I'll still have it with me my last day here...

 

Well, that elicited some really great responses, mostly on the side of the shotgun.

Don't get me wrong. I love my Benelli M1S90. We've been together for 30+ years. I employed identical shotguns as an LEO. I fortunately never needed to use one. I do vividly remember two specific situations where the bad guy(s) attitude quickly changed when they noticed the shotgun pointed at them. This is not something to count on; however, it ended these specific situations with no one getting hurt.

But is a 12 gauge my go-to inside the home defense gun? No. The post-shooting mess is a small part of my decision. Not the whole decision. Not the biggest part. Just a part. If all I happen to have on hand is my 12 gauge when needed, I will not hesitate to use it to defend my family. But my go-to is a 9mm carbine for a multitude of reasons based on my situation.

We have all seen the shotgun/handgun/rifle/light saber/Klingon Bat'leth debate played out many times and I was curious if this subject would be enough for anyone to reconsider their decision. Answer: probably not. That tells me there are plenty of people here who know your situation well enough that I would not want to be the guy crawling through your window at 2am.

So what is the best home defense gun? I don't think there is a universal answer to that. It is the one you know. The one you are confident with. The one in your hand when needed!

 

The shotgun is always touted as the simplest and quickest way to go-all you have to do is "point and pull", "don't need any training", etc. "Those in the know" know better. Those with greater experience than mine have said skeet and bird shot is not to be scoffed at.
Jeff Cooper emphasized the "Combat Mindset", the need to go from Condition White to Condition Red in seconds. He also scoffed at Post Traumatic Stress
Disorder, he wrote that if remorse was to be shown it was an administrative matter.
Yes, I think home defense plans and equipment should be tailored to the specific circumstances-small children, older relatives, home layout, etc.

 

My first murder was a in house between 2 old "friends".

The shooter used a semi auto .22 rifle and fired at least 10 rounds into the chest of the deceased.

I was on duty from the academy for about a month

There was a pool of blood that covered the floor,and shell casings all over.

My thought as I left was " who cleans up this mess".

And then I said to myself,what would I do if it were my house.

I found out that there are more than a few companys that specialize in this,and they do VERY well in a few liberal/democratic citys too.

You should NOT consider caliber by the mess it might [ will ] make.

Any more than worrying about the real mess that the fire department will make with water damage [ yes the whole house ].

 

I own a mop.

My priorities are dealing with a death in my home, coroner's inquest, police investigation, civil suit, staying out of prison, the safety of my family.

Housekeeping is at the very bottom of my list of concerns, when it comes to defending my home from an intruder.