Agents accidentally shot while gun being holstered

[Cavalier Knight]

Two federal agents wounded in an accidental shooting at the federal courthouse were shot when a U.S. Marshal's gun went off as he was trying to holster it, federal authorities said Tuesday.

Officials with the U.S. Marshal Service said a deputy marshal and a U.S. Border Patrol agent suffered gunshot wounds Monday morning when the marshal was trying to holster his gun after removing it from a security locker. The agents were in a secure hallway on the courthouse's third floor.

The agents, whose names have not been released, were treated at a local hospital after the incident and have since been released.

ARTICLE

 

[oneshooter]

"Only law enforcement and the military are trained to safely handle firearms."

Yea, right.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[texas bulldog]

very strange that the gun would just "go off" don'tcha think?

why can't they ever report it the way it actually happened?

Two federal agents wounded in a negligent shooting at the federal courthouse were shot when a U.S. Marshal had his finger on the trigger of his weapon as he was trying to holster it, a serious violation of safe firearms handling, federal authorities said Tuesday.

there. fixed it.

 

[Steve in PA]

Never mind.

 

[ilbob]

Do the rules require the gun be unloaded when stored in the security locker?

 

[Treo]

he may have been chambering a round when the ND happened

 

[papajohn]

I've never been in a place (like a courthouse) where you had to completely clear the weapon, you generally just unholstered it, and shoved it into the locker, then removed the key to take it with you.

Just a guess, but I'd bet it was a Glock or something similar, and he shoved it into the holster with his finger on the trigger. And I would say something snippy like, "I bet he doesn't do THAT again" but I'm not convinced it's true.

PJ

 

[rondog]

Just a few months ago, a LEO here in the Denver area was holstering his Glock at the range. Apparently, the tail of his jacket got in the trigger guard as he holstered it, and it fired into his thigh.

I have NO desire to own a Glock, thank you very much. I don't care how many folks love them.

 

[230RN]

ROT 716(G) Part II (a)

Glocks are tensioned-striker fired, right?

One of my Rules Of Thumb (hereinafter ROT) is to never own a sprung striker-fired handgun.

ROT 716(G) Part II

(a) Never own a tensioned striker-fired handgun.

(b) Ever. See ROT 716(G) Part II (a)

(From 230RN's book, "Handy Guide to Life and Collected Rules Of Thumb")

 

[csmkersh]

I've never been in a place (like a courthouse) where you had to completely clear the weapon, you generally just unholstered it, and shoved it into the locker, then removed the key to take it with you.

Ah, then you've never carried a handgun on a military reservation, have you. We were required to clear the weapon, point it into a sand barrel and pull the trigger before entry into certain facilities on post.


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[Vern Humphrey]

Just a few months ago, a LEO here in the Denver area was holstering his Glock at the range. Apparently, the tail of his jacket got in the trigger guard as he holstered it, and it fired into his thigh.

That's the classic Glock ND.

 

[Zeabed]

You can clear a Glock while retaining the trigger by having a Saf-T-Blok plug encased behind the trigger.

http://members.aol.com/saftblok/

 

[FCFC]

Just a guess, but I'd bet it was a Glock or something similar...

I wish the press would specify the make/model/caliber in all gun incident reportings where it is important to the reading public's comprehension of the incident. The press actually seems to avoid publishing those details. :banghead:

I'm also beginning to wonder if there is a political correctness thing happening on forums whereby one style of comments gets made for a member or civilian AD/ND and another, ever so slightly more critical, style of comments gets made for a LEO AD/ND.

The PC thing just crossed my mind.....

 

[230RN]

I'm also beginning to wonder if there is a political correctness thing happening on forums whereby one style of comments gets made for a member or civilian AD/ND and another, ever so slightly more critical, style of comments gets made for a LEO AD/ND

No boudt adoubt it. I think its part of a not-so-unconscious resentment of the fact that so many non-2A folks out there are injected/marinated with the idea that only LEO's are competent to carry a firearm.

I find that "unconscius resentment," which outwardly seems to be directed toward LEOs, a little annoying, and every time I see one of those "I'm the only one in this room" remarks or thread titles, I cringe a little.

After all, LEOs are not the right target for this resentment. It should be directed toward the injectors/marinators and maybe the unfortunate injectees/marinatees who believe the businees about only LEOs being trained and competent to use firearms.

 

[dmazur]

Not to start a rant about Glocks or other designs without a safety, but the more I read about incidents like this, the more I understand why a 1911 type gun carried Condition 1 is such a good idea.

There are way too many holster designs that have some kind of retention strap, and these can "curl in" and find the trigger guard as you are reholstering. With a Glock type gun, ND can be the result.

With a 1911 with the safety on, you're pressing against a trigger/sear that is blocked by the thumb safety. Eventually you'll figure out why the holster thing isn't working for you, but a ND isn't likely.

Same thing goes for the unfortunate pilot with the lock requirement. Gun probably didn't have a safety, and holstering with the lock ahead of the trigger instead of behind it results in a ND.

Sounds crazy, but if things progress in the "correct direction", with CCW being an accepted fact of life, we may see safe discharge cans (or tubes) in more locations which require administrative handling of firearms. Like courthouses.

There was one of these at a police range where I used to shoot. The protocol was "cold range", so uniformed officers had to show clear before entering the range proper. Part of this was dry firing the weapon into a sand-filled tube. I asked the rangemaster how many times it actually had handled a discharge, and the answer was "Far too many".

So, while bashing LEO's isn't fair, there may also be some truth to the point that they are merely average rather than super-human.

 

[FCFC]

Not to start a rant about Glocks or other designs without a safety, but the more I read about incidents like this, the more I understand why a 1911 type gun carried Condition 1 is such a good idea.

Well, it's pure speculation that it was a GLOCK...

But I can see your point about a benefit from a 1911 in C1.

Condition 3 has the same and other similar benefits too. That's probably why so many people use C3, in 1911s, GLOCKs and other models.

 

[Teufelhunden]

I'm also beginning to wonder if there is a political correctness thing happening on forums whereby one style of comments gets made for a member or civilian AD/ND and another, ever so slightly more critical, style of comments gets made for a LEO AD/ND.

Not being one to normally contribute in cop bashing threads since I AM a cop, I would agree that folks are, and should be, more critical of cops having ND's than Joe Citizen. Joe Citizen might have bought the gun and be otherwise completely ignorant of safety issues surrounding responsible firearms ownership. A peace officer on the other hand, at any level, has been trained in how his weapon operates and how to safely handle it.

If Joe Citizen has a ND, it is often the result of ignorance. If a fellow peace officer has a ND, I consider it a result of professional apathy. He has been trained, and did not engage his brain before he engaged his hands.

-Teuf

 

[Scattergun Bob]

ilbob

Bob, a grand and great name

In my part of the world, strict protocols were in force, in courthouses, we were required to completely download all firearms and place them in safe storage. Upon leaving the secure area of the courthouse there was an spot in the storage area too upload your firearm. Some times there was just a blank wall some times a five gallon bucket of sand, some times a safety tube.

No speculation on weapon or incident. One thing for sure, complacency KILLS, even cops.

Good Luck & Be Safe

 

[DaleA]

FCFC posted

I wish the press would specify the make/model/caliber in all gun incident reportings where it is important to the reading public's comprehension of the incident. The press actually seems to avoid publishing those details.

I seem to noticed newspapers and fiction writers TRYING to appear more 'gun literate' by including firearm details but then things fall apart when they write something like this actual quote (which I used in another thread here on THR) from the Saint Paul MN daily paper :

"-she fired her Glock semiautomatic revolver because she believed her life and safety were in immediate danger."

I'm guessing some writers avoid specifics because of laziness and fear of appearing foolish and perhaps they actually can't find anybody to give them specifics in some incidents.

P.S. And I do remember that Glock is GLOCK.

 

[DaleA]

We were required to clear the weapon, point it into a sand barrel and pull the trigger before entry into certain facilities on post.

Does that bring back memories. There was no problem with people clearing their weapons on the post I was on UNTIL they installed the clearing barrel.

Seems some folk were unclear on the concept.

They reasoned the sand barrel was there to catch the bullet and if they didn't have a round in the pistol there would be no bullet for the sand barrel to catch so...

 

[dmazur]

Although Payan couldn't comment on the type of gun the U.S. Marshals' deputy fired, he said deputies are typically issued Glocks 40-caliber handguns.

And even if it was a GLOCK, that doesn't make it any better or worse. It was still a ND.

(But the temptation is still there: "...this heah Glock foh-tay." )

Hoping for full recovery, some leniency on the employing agency's part, and only a couple of weeks of remedial training for the officer involved. I mean, if they terminate him, how can they force him to take remedial training?

 

[VegasOPM]

Regardless of the "who" or the "what" it was an ND that caused injury. Holstering a weapon is an administrative task with NO time limits. Care needs to be taken.

 

[1911Tuner]

Before anybody gets too wrapped up in the irony and pure delight over an agent experiencing a ND in a courtroom...think about this:

Right about now, Suzie Soccermom and Briefcase Bob are thinking that guns are SOOOO dangerous...and that if a trained professional can't even keep from having serious and frightening accidents...how can we mere mortal folk fare any better.

Things like this don't help our cause, and revelling in the misfortune of another just adds fuel to their anti-gun fires.

Besides...taking delight in the downfall of another is just wrong. 'Long 'bout the time ya think it can't happen to you...BANG!

 

[MTMilitiaman]

There are way too many holster designs that have some kind of retention strap, and these can "curl in" and find the trigger guard as you are reholstering. With a Glock type gun, ND can be the result.

Have you ever tried it?

My experience leads me to believe this is pure BS.

I got tired of people making such assumptions, so after triple clearing my Glock 20, I tried to get the thumb break or retention strap on my el cheapo Uncle Mikes holsters to fire the pistol. It is damn near impossible to accomplish. In order to accomplish such a feat, the pistol has to be holstered at such an awkward and unnatural angle so as to be barely feasible. It involves cocking the wrist inwards and covering yourself with the muzzle, then pinching the retention strap between the pistol's grip and your index and middle fingers and jamming it into the holster. If you don't feel retarded going through those motions, you certainly would when the gun went off, and it would be a hard-earned and well-deserved hole in the foot.

I don't doubt that other holsters may make it a little easier, but more than likely, the officer had his finger in the trigger guard or something else that was similarly stupid. Because making a Glock go off when holstering it simply isn't as easy as some make it appear.

Lastly, I must point out that this could have easily been a DA/SA or DAO pistol such as the SIG P229 or HK USP LEM that both companies made a big deal of when they acquired contracts. We don't even know for sure it was a Glock.

 

[csmkersh]

GLOCK UDs from retention straps and fingers in the trigger guard have been well documented by NYPD. That is why the world is "blessed" with the NY trigger.


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