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Agents accidentally shot while gun being holstered

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Cavalier Knight, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. Cavalier Knight

    Cavalier Knight Member

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    ARTICLE
     
  2. oneshooter

    oneshooter Member

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    "Only law enforcement and the military are trained to safely handle firearms."

    Yea, right.

    Oneshooter
    Livin in Texas
     
  3. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Member

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    very strange that the gun would just "go off" don'tcha think? :rolleyes:

    why can't they ever report it the way it actually happened?
    there. fixed it.
     
  4. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    Never mind.
     
  5. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Do the rules require the gun be unloaded when stored in the security locker?
     
  6. Treo

    Treo member

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    he may have been chambering a round when the ND happened
     
  7. papajohn

    papajohn Member

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    I've never been in a place (like a courthouse) where you had to completely clear the weapon, you generally just unholstered it, and shoved it into the locker, then removed the key to take it with you.

    Just a guess, but I'd bet it was a Glock or something similar, and he shoved it into the holster with his finger on the trigger. And I would say something snippy like, "I bet he doesn't do THAT again" but I'm not convinced it's true.

    PJ
     
  8. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Just a few months ago, a LEO here in the Denver area was holstering his Glock at the range. Apparently, the tail of his jacket got in the trigger guard as he holstered it, and it fired into his thigh.

    I have NO desire to own a Glock, thank you very much. I don't care how many folks love them.
     
  9. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    ROT 716(G) Part II (a)

    Glocks are tensioned-striker fired, right?

    One of my Rules Of Thumb (hereinafter ROT) is to never own a sprung striker-fired handgun.


    (From 230RN's book, "Handy Guide to Life and Collected Rules Of Thumb")
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
  10. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

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    Ah, then you've never carried a handgun on a military reservation, have you. We were required to clear the weapon, point it into a sand barrel and pull the trigger before entry into certain facilities on post.


     
  11. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    That's the classic Glock ND.
     
  12. Zeabed

    Zeabed Member

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  13. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    I wish the press would specify the make/model/caliber in all gun incident reportings where it is important to the reading public's comprehension of the incident. The press actually seems to avoid publishing those details. :banghead:

    I'm also beginning to wonder if there is a political correctness thing happening on forums whereby one style of comments gets made for a member or civilian AD/ND and another, ever so slightly more critical, style of comments gets made for a LEO AD/ND.

    The PC thing just crossed my mind..... :rolleyes:
     
  14. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    No boudt adoubt it. I think its part of a not-so-unconscious resentment of the fact that so many non-2A folks out there are injected/marinated with the idea that only LEO's are competent to carry a firearm.

    I find that "unconscius resentment," which outwardly seems to be directed toward LEOs, a little annoying, and every time I see one of those "I'm the only one in this room" remarks or thread titles, I cringe a little.

    After all, LEOs are not the right target for this resentment. It should be directed toward the injectors/marinators and maybe the unfortunate injectees/marinatees who believe the businees about only LEOs being trained and competent to use firearms.
     
  15. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    Not to start a rant about Glocks or other designs without a safety, but the more I read about incidents like this, the more I understand why a 1911 type gun carried Condition 1 is such a good idea.

    There are way too many holster designs that have some kind of retention strap, and these can "curl in" and find the trigger guard as you are reholstering. With a Glock type gun, ND can be the result.

    With a 1911 with the safety on, you're pressing against a trigger/sear that is blocked by the thumb safety. Eventually you'll figure out why the holster thing isn't working for you, but a ND isn't likely.

    Same thing goes for the unfortunate pilot with the lock requirement. Gun probably didn't have a safety, and holstering with the lock ahead of the trigger instead of behind it results in a ND.

    Sounds crazy, but if things progress in the "correct direction", with CCW being an accepted fact of life, we may see safe discharge cans (or tubes) in more locations which require administrative handling of firearms. Like courthouses.

    There was one of these at a police range where I used to shoot. The protocol was "cold range", so uniformed officers had to show clear before entering the range proper. Part of this was dry firing the weapon into a sand-filled tube. I asked the rangemaster how many times it actually had handled a discharge, and the answer was "Far too many".

    So, while bashing LEO's isn't fair, there may also be some truth to the point that they are merely average rather than super-human.
     
  16. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Well, it's pure speculation that it was a GLOCK...

    But I can see your point about a benefit from a 1911 in C1.

    Condition 3 has the same and other similar benefits too. That's probably why so many people use C3, in 1911s, GLOCKs and other models.
     
  17. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden Member

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    Not being one to normally contribute in cop bashing threads since I AM a cop, I would agree that folks are, and should be, more critical of cops having ND's than Joe Citizen. Joe Citizen might have bought the gun and be otherwise completely ignorant of safety issues surrounding responsible firearms ownership. A peace officer on the other hand, at any level, has been trained in how his weapon operates and how to safely handle it.

    If Joe Citizen has a ND, it is often the result of ignorance. If a fellow peace officer has a ND, I consider it a result of professional apathy. He has been trained, and did not engage his brain before he engaged his hands.

    -Teuf
     
  18. Scattergun Bob

    Scattergun Bob Member

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    ilbob

    Bob, a grand and great name;)

    In my part of the world, strict protocols were in force, in courthouses, we were required to completely download all firearms and place them in safe storage. Upon leaving the secure area of the courthouse there was an spot in the storage area too upload your firearm. Some times there was just a blank wall some times a five gallon bucket of sand, some times a safety tube.

    No speculation on weapon or incident. One thing for sure, complacency KILLS, even cops.

    Good Luck & Be Safe
     
  19. DaleA

    DaleA Member

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    FCFC posted
    I seem to noticed newspapers and fiction writers TRYING to appear more 'gun literate' by including firearm details but then things fall apart when they write something like this actual quote (which I used in another thread here on THR) from the Saint Paul MN daily paper :

    I'm guessing some writers avoid specifics because of laziness and fear of appearing foolish and perhaps they actually can't find anybody to give them specifics in some incidents.

    P.S. And I do remember that Glock is GLOCK.:rolleyes:
     
  20. DaleA

    DaleA Member

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    Does that bring back memories. There was no problem with people clearing their weapons on the post I was on UNTIL they installed the clearing barrel.

    Seems some folk were unclear on the concept.

    They reasoned the sand barrel was there to catch the bullet and if they didn't have a round in the pistol there would be no bullet for the sand barrel to catch so...:eek:
     
  21. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    And even if it was a GLOCK, that doesn't make it any better or worse. It was still a ND.

    (But the temptation is still there: "...this heah Glock foh-tay." )

    Hoping for full recovery, some leniency on the employing agency's part, and only a couple of weeks of remedial training for the officer involved. I mean, if they terminate him, how can they force him to take remedial training? :)
     
  22. VegasOPM

    VegasOPM Member

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    Regardless of the "who" or the "what" it was an ND that caused injury. Holstering a weapon is an administrative task with NO time limits. Care needs to be taken.
     
  23. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Before anybody gets too wrapped up in the irony and pure delight over an agent experiencing a ND in a courtroom...think about this:

    Right about now, Suzie Soccermom and Briefcase Bob are thinking that guns are SOOOO dangerous...and that if a trained professional can't even keep from having serious and frightening accidents...how can we mere mortal folk fare any better.

    Things like this don't help our cause, and revelling in the misfortune of another just adds fuel to their anti-gun fires.

    Besides...taking delight in the downfall of another is just wrong. 'Long 'bout the time ya think it can't happen to you...BANG!
     
  24. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    Have you ever tried it?

    My experience leads me to believe this is pure BS.

    I got tired of people making such assumptions, so after triple clearing my Glock 20, I tried to get the thumb break or retention strap on my el cheapo Uncle Mikes holsters to fire the pistol. It is damn near impossible to accomplish. In order to accomplish such a feat, the pistol has to be holstered at such an awkward and unnatural angle so as to be barely feasible. It involves cocking the wrist inwards and covering yourself with the muzzle, then pinching the retention strap between the pistol's grip and your index and middle fingers and jamming it into the holster. If you don't feel retarded going through those motions, you certainly would when the gun went off, and it would be a hard-earned and well-deserved hole in the foot.

    I don't doubt that other holsters may make it a little easier, but more than likely, the officer had his finger in the trigger guard or something else that was similarly stupid. Because making a Glock go off when holstering it simply isn't as easy as some make it appear.

    Lastly, I must point out that this could have easily been a DA/SA or DAO pistol such as the SIG P229 or HK USP LEM that both companies made a big deal of when they acquired contracts. We don't even know for sure it was a Glock.
     
  25. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

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    GLOCK UDs from retention straps and fingers in the trigger guard have been well documented by NYPD. That is why the world is "blessed" with the NY trigger.


     
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