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AHSA Makes Their Stance Known

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Phil DeGraves, Nov 13, 2008.

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  1. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    Rosenthal article on HuffPo


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-r..._b_142783.html

    John Rosenthal
    Posted November 10, 2008 | 04:48 PM (EST)
    What President Obama can do to reduce Gun Violence
    President Elect Obama should implement 7 tested and proven initiatives that will have an immediate impact on reducing gun related violence, accidents and suicides without affecting the Second Amendment or having any negative impact on responsible and law abiding gun owners

    Of the average 34,000 gun deaths in the US every year approximately 11,000 are homicides, 18,000 are suicides and 5,000 are unintentional accidents. We can change these horrific numbers.

    If I were President Obama, one of my first acts would be the immediate implementation the following gun violence prevention initiatives to reduce gun access by children, criminals and terrorists without any undue restrictions on responsible gun owners like myself.

    #1 Mandatory criminal background checks for all gun sales
    Current Federal law only requires Licensed gun dealers to perform criminal background checks. Consequently in 32 States "private dealers"/individuals can legally sell guns at thousands of annual gun shows, countless flea markets and yard sales, and out of homes, backpacks, car trunks or on street corners without running a background check or asking to see an ID. Only the first gun sale from a "Federally Licensed" gun dealer requires documentation and all "secondary" gun sales are legally allowed to take place without any paperwork or record keeping. As a result, convicted felons and suspected terrorists can and do buy guns simply because there is no background check required or conducted.

    #2 Require responsible and safe gun storage for all firearms unless they are in the owners direct control
    Approximately 40% of American homes have at least one firearm. Most guns used in child accidental gun injuries and deaths and teenage suicides come from within the home. Responsible guns owners safely secure their guns -unloaded and locked unless they are in their direct control. Seventeen States have such a safe-storage/Child Access Prevention requirement and all such states have a lower incidence of gun injuries and deaths among children compared to states without such a requirement.

    #3 Allow Law Enforcement to maintain and share critical "crime-gun" trace data
    Current Federal law prohibits the BATF from sharing crime gun trace data even among law enforcement agencies. In 2000 the BATF used crime-gun trace data to determine that just 1% of licensed gun dealers provided 57% of guns used in crime. Instead of supporting law enforcement efforts to identify and arrest illegal gun dealers, the Bush administration made police the enemy of "gun rights", requiring prison sentences for any police official that shares crime-gun trace data with even other law enforcement.

    #4 Restore and improve the Federal Ban on Assault Weapons
    The 10 year Federal ban on 19 specific military style assault weapons beginning in 1994 was supported by every major US law enforcement organization representing over 450,000 police officers. Although so called assault weapons make up approximately 1% of the US gun stock, statistics clearly show that they are the weapon of choice by gangs, career criminals and terrorist organizations and disproportionately show up in crimes. The Bush administration let the ban expire in 2004 even though the ban resulted in a dramatic 66% reduction in these weapons used in crime over the 10 year period.

    #5 Repeal the Federal law giving Immunity to the gun industry
    In 2007 Congress and the Bush administration enacted legislation prohibiting the ability to sue the gun industry even for negligence and blatantly marketing to criminals. For instance, the Tech 9 semi-automatic pistol, one of the guns used at the Columbine High School massacre, was marketed as "having a finish resistant to fingerprints", the Hertzel 22 cal handgun is marketed as "capable of penetrating 48 layers of soft body armor" and the Barrett 50 cal sniper rifle with a 2 mile range and designed to penetrate steel, is touted as being able to "take down an aircraft with one shot" and they tell you where to put it. Osama bin Laden bought a dozen of these US made Barrett's when fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan! The gun industry makes, markets and sells inherently dangerous product (like automobiles, knives and drugs- all regulated) and they should be held accountable for their actions.

    #6 Enact National Consumer Product Safety Commission regulations for firearms
    Congress has prohibited the National Consumer Product Safety Commission from oversight of the gun industry. Therefore guns have NO consumer safety, manufacturing or marketing standards for how they are sold. Consequently toy guns and teddy bears have more regulations on how they're made than real guns that result in an average of 34,000 deaths a year in the US. The gun industry flaunts their "freedom" from regulation and continues to make and sell guns without minimal safety features and in some cases knowingly market their deadly products directly to criminals and terrorists without any accountability. Massachusetts, which is home to Smith and Wesson, the nation's largest handgun manufacturer, enacted the first in the nation Consumer Protection regulations for firearms and such oversight had no negative impacts on legitimate gun makers, dealers or buyers in the State.


    #7 Create incentives for the gun industry to make "personalized guns"
    According to gun maker Smith and Wesson, guns could be made with personal recognition technology such that only the intended user could fire the gun. This practical technological solution would save the lives of countless victims of gun violence, accidents and suicides each year. It could also help save the lives of the 17% of police officers killed in the line of duty by a criminal accessing the officer's gun. In fact, in an agreement with the Clinton administration, Smith and Wesson promised to invest a portion of net profits into "personalized gun technology".


    If President Obama and Congress were to enact just these 7 national gun violence prevention initiates, the 34,000 annual gun deaths and 80,000 injuries would be reduced to a fraction without any undue hardship on responsible gun owners like myself. I'm hopeful. President-Elect Obama knows all too well that 70-80 percent of the 80 or more gun deaths every day in the US are non-white, urban Americans. He also knows that an overwhelming majority of Americans, including gun owners and law enforcement officers, support criminal background checks for all gun sales, the Ban on assault weapons and responsible safety standards and regulations for gun makers, dealers and owners that do not infringe upon Second Amendment rights.

    Now all that is needed is a loud public outcry and the political will for sensible and responsible domestic gun policy.

    From his Bio - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-rosenthal

    In October 1995, as a gun owner, recreational Trap Shooter and businessperson John founded Stop Handgun Violence. The organization has been symbolized by a large 252 feet long and 20 feet high biilboard that he built on the side of a parking garage that he owns along the Massachusetts Turnpike near Boston’s Fenway Park. The billboard campaign has dramatically communicated the extent of the national gun violence problem as well as practical solutions and need for effective uniform national gun laws and initiatives.

    Stop Handgun Violence was the lead advocate for Massachusetts enacting the most comprehensive gun laws and first in the nation consumer protection regulations for firearms and MA is among the top three states with the lowest firearm fatality rate (3.2 per vs. 10.6 per 100,000 popoulation national average) in the United States.

    In 2005 John co-founded a new membership organization called American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA). AHSA is an alternative membership organization to the NRA for moderate gun owners who care about gun rights as well as gun safety, conservation and wildlife habitat and support for law enforcement.


    Also see this about "factcheck.org"

    http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/275051.php
     
  2. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    and there you see AHSA's true colors...

    notice they didn't publicize any of this when they endorsed O-man!

    liberal power mongers always practice lies and deceit
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    This guy is a Trap shooter?

    You'd think that any half-serious gun owner would know that this means that the gun doesn't get rust marks on it.
     
  4. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    A stupid marketing claim indeed, but no different than the refrigerator door finish that's marketed as being resistant to fingerprints.

    The reasoning behind a fingerprint resistant finish on a gun is plain ol' aesthetics as opposed to helping criminals escape justice.
     
  5. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    Hmmmm so if we completely outlaw guns, the only real benefit will be to the accident victims because it makes sense that the suicide and homicide people can and will find another way (i.e. not gun related)

    As for the 5000 accidents and injuries . . . . remind me how many people die and are injured in car accidents again? Once we're done with these guns we really need to start walking everywhere. We'll have fewer fat people, everyone will be healthier and we can get rid of those pesky suburbs and rural areas and no more gasoline problems to boot!

    Oh and IBTIL.
     
  6. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    Yeah, I'll say that the AWB was specific... so specific that the Tec-9 needed only minor changes to be sold as the AB10 (AB=After Ban). It was all about the threaded barrels... they're killing people, those threaded barrels! :neener:

    Yes, they're "so called" assault weapons... which the more knowledgeable refer to as "firearms".

    What does "weapon of choice" mean? That could mean that it is the "most desired" and not necessarily the most widely possessed. Statistically, most criminals probably do really, really want an AR-15. Hell, why not? They're nifty!;)

    They show up disproportionally in crimes? Dang! I never knew the crackheads were carrying battle rifles in my town. Just imagine... I could be standing in line at gas station when someone comes in with a $1,500 rifle with an $800 ACOG scope with Dr. Optic short range sights, and he could just get away with the $75 in the register becaus of a rifle like that!:banghead:

    The Bush administration didn't let it expire, congress did. As for the 66% reduction in "so called" assault weapon crime, maybe its true! Maybe there were 3 crimes using AR-15s in 1993, but only 1 AR-15 crime in 1994... a 66% reduction!


    Excuse me now, I've gotta go :barf:.
     
  7. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Or maybe after 1994, they used 2 AR's without bayonet lugs or flash hiders. Remember: an AR with a muzzle brake and no bayonet lug was never legally an "assault weapon."
     
  8. esq_stu

    esq_stu Member

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    There is not a single thing I can say about the author or the org that would not contain a 4-letter word

    That org needs to be discredited, big time.
     
  9. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Not after Nov. 5, 2008 they don't! :evil: I'm going to bet that they were higher than that in 1994 too. Since Sept. 13, 1994, their numbers have grown exponentially and today, I'd bet that it's the hunting rifles that are in the minority.
     
  10. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    You know, it really makes sense that they banned those bayonet lugs... long-range rifles with bayonet lugs can easily be converted into something as deadly as a short-range knife! :eek:
     
  11. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    Why does what John Rosenthal says have anything to do with AHSA?

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  12. sniper5

    sniper5 Member

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    Maybe the NRA should change it's name. Something like "The American Society to Reduce Crime Victims" that sounds so much more fluffy without that nasty gun thing in the name.
     
  13. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    Reminds me about the time I was shooting my SKS and was asked "Hey, Dude, isn't that an 'Assault Weapon'?"

    "Only if I butt-stroke you in the face with it..."
     
  14. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    That's why.
     
  15. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    Oh,co-founded....that means it has TWO members? As for bayonets,don't you remember all those drive by bayonetings we used to have?
     
  16. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    Ooops!

    He's had nothing to do with the organization for quite some time, and they have publicly disavowed his public comments on gun policy:

    http://www.huntersandshooters.org/node/1419


    Mike
     
  17. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    Well, you don't see Charleton Heston advocation a renewed ban on scary-looking firearms, do you?
     
  18. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    If I see Charleton Heston doing anything, I would be pretty nervous. Unless he's driving around in a pink Caddy with Elvis ... :) That would be cool.

    But it is clear that in AHSAs' view, Mr. Rosenthal hasn't had the capacity to make AHSA's "stance" on anything known for well over a year, correct?

    Mike
     
  19. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    Foghornl:

    "Reminds me about the time I was shooting my SKS and was asked "Hey, Dude, isn't that an 'Assault Weapon'?"

    "Only if I butt-stroke you in the face with it..."


    HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAA!!!!!!
     
  20. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    :scrutiny:An anti as the co-founder, though? That sure makes me suspicious.:scrutiny:
     
  21. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    While Rosenthal is obviously a gun-prohibitionist of the widest stripe the fact that the AHSA disavows him puts the OP on shaky ground trying to equate the two. We need to be able to do a lot better than that if we're going to start off a thread like this one.

    Know thy enemy, but get the facts straight.
     
  22. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    I bet a lot about AHSA makes you suspicious. :)

    His gun views also made the AHSA BoD suspicious - they felt that his membership in certain other gun organizations were incompatible with serving on the BoD of a pro-gun organization like the AHSA. Wouldn't you agree?

    But the title of this thread is a little misleading. Notice it didn't say "Former Member of the Board of Directors of AHSA Makes His Stance Known" - that would be the truth. But the truth is not nearly as interesting ...

    Mike
     
  23. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    Yes, I would agree... that's why I'm so suspicious!:scrutiny: Why would an anit-gun advocate become a founder of a pro-gun org? It casts suspicion over the entire organization, and that's just something AHSA is just going to have to overcome by demonstrating by their actions that they are true to their published agenda. When they start publicly advocating on behalf of gun owners (and not just 2 shot skeet shooters) my doubts may go away.
     
  24. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    A gun that can't fire would certainly be safe. :rolleyes:
     
  25. SuperNaut

    SuperNaut Member

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    I disagree.

    The current AHSA board members are quite interesting. Ray Schoenke for example, or Bob Ricker, or Joseph J. Vince, Jr.. This begs the question: Why, when so many of the current BoD members are anti-gun shills, would they boot Rosenthal?

    The truth is always interesting, unless your interest lies elsewhere.
     
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