Air Rifle Out To 100yds?

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Good Ol' Boy

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I recently set up an air rifle range at home that I could theoretically shoot out to 100yds max. My question is, is this a realistic expectation or too much to ask of a pellet rifle?

I currently have a cheap Beeman .177/.22 combo I bought at Walmart years ago for $120. I've only ever shot the .22 barrel. At 25yds it'll shoot 1-2" groups and about three times that at 50 yrds. Haven't gone any further than that as I'm certain I'd just be lucky to hit the 7" plate at a greater distance.


So, without talking ultra expensive guns, would a $2-300 upgrade be any better? Would .177 be better suited for greater distances? Is accuracy at 100yds from a air rifle a pipe dream?


Your thoughts....
 
I would ping the folks at Pyramid Air and see what they suggest. Wind will be hard on light, rather slow pellets so that will be an issue. Mostly shooting subsonic so drop will be something to address. I wouldn't rule it out but I don't know since I keep my air gun stuff to 10m or so most of the time.
 
I believe 50 yards will be far enough to test your ability as well as your airguns. Most people will use a scope at that distance. There are airguns that will shoot reasonably well further out but the cost and complexity increases exponentially. You can look into 'PCP airguns' to see what's available- just know a good one ain't cheap.

Good luck!
 
100yds consistently is squarely in med bore pcp territory. You can do it with the .22s and .25s but the .30+ are a better option.

That said, i can almost always hit a dinner plate at 100 with my co2 powered Qb78 and JSB exact heavies. I used to be able to hit a pop can with boring regularity with my tuned up disco. This is all very dependent on wind, little or no wind and its pretty easy, more and the harder it gets.

Velocity helps but again anything over 1100is going transsonic before 100yds. Best off to launch heavy pellets in the 900-1000fps range. Thus i prefer the .22s loaded heavy to the .25s. Springers usually can't compete with the pcps outside of 50yds....

So long answer short yes 300-350 will get you a gun that COULD do 100yds, but may not. If i were gonna do it on the cheap id go for one of crosmans entry level pcps, and a hand pump.
If theres a paintball shop or scuba place, or your fire department is super nice and will fill tanks, then getting some buddie bottles and a fill station will add another 100-150 but will make the whole thing easier.

Also for reference my Qb will only do 100yds reliably when tuned to about 20ft/lbs, which only allows about 15shots per pair of co2s.
 
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No problemmo.
Just moola..... :evil:
2qbt4ys.jpg
 
Yeah, that's why i got out of the pcps, couldn't afford the addiction..... Especially when i realized i was seriously looking a getting a hpa compressor.
 
I'd do it if/when shoebox type 'add-on' compressors come down enough in price, seeing as how I already have a good air compressor in the shop.
 
Yeah, I was looking when the cheapest "decent" compressor was 3500 used, Now they are under 1k new for one of the cute box ones.
When i got into them I played paintball and had access to the hpa at the field and shop, so initially the pcps werent overly expensive, or high in effort. Then i quit paintball and my HPA source dried up lol...lazy got the better of me and i switched back to co2 guns.

Ive got some projects to test next weekend, i may return my qb for max power and see if i cant get some 100yd groups on paper, ive never done that. It shoots around an inch at 50, so if i can get a couple, 4 inches at 100 ill be happy
 
I've never shot for groups with anything at 100 yards, mainly because until recently I only used open sights. Someday I need to air out my AR15 to see what we're capable of. But airguns at 100 yards? lol I don't own one that I'd even bother trying to get a group that far away. It'll take more oomph than any of my .177s can muster.
 
Appreciate the replies fellas. After researching some more and spending my day off today looking at a couple LGS I'm abandening the notion of getting out to 100yds with a pellet rifle right now. Too rich for my blood.

However I'm still intrigued with the newer "nitro piston" rifles as to whether or not they're any easier to shoot than standard springers. I found a couple of .177 nitro rifles with 4x32 scopes in the $120-150 range today. Would they be better suited for better accuracy at even 50yds? I'd at least like to get better accuracy at 50yds than what I'm getting with my "acclaimed" 800fps .22.


I did however find some ammo today that I will be using as my go to with my .22 for 25-30yds. This stuff was considerably more accurate and consistent than the CM Premier I had been using and have never really liked.






After shooting a golf ball sized group @ 25yds with the above I tried out another type of ammo I picked up today. I'm really confused by the results so maybe some "air experts" here can enlighten me. I realize it's a heavier bullet but I would have thought that would've caused it to drop. Instead you can see the crazy results.

The ammo and the three shots I took before I gave up...






 
Okay, here is what my brain is telling me in response to both of your posts. To get consistency at range, you THEORETICALLY (if I have my theory all figured out right) need, or would benefit from, a high ballistic coefficient. Your ballistic coefficient, if I remember correctly, is derived from the mass of your projectile divided by surface area of your projectile, and an oddly shaped pellet (as opposed to a relatively streamlined spire point bullet) may factor into this differently than normal.

Therefore if I were building my own benchrest pellet gun, I would look for something with a good heavy pellet relative to its bore size.

Now, to compensate for drop and wind deflection, you need a relatively high speed projectile. However, you do not want to attempt to break the speed of sound, because that makes bad issues for some reason that I never fully understood. However, what I do understand about supersonic projectiles is that when they go back under the speed of sound they are affected in a bad way. So, if you can keep them supersonic fine; but if you are going to be back under the speed of sound by the time your pellet reaches the target, it would have been better both for your accuracy and efficient use of the energy imparted to the projectile if you had just stayed under the speed of sound to begin with. To my understanding, the ultra-high velocity pellet guns are still only going 1200 fps or maybe just a little bit more at the muzzle. If the speed of sound is 1100 fps, which depending upon your altitude and temperature should be a pretty close estimate, even a really fast .177 pellet will be subsonic by the time it reaches its target, probably even by about 25 yards (just a guess on that distance), but definitely by 100 yards.

So, back to my hypothetical benchrest pellet gun, I want something with a heavy pellet and probably running about 1000 fps max with whatever pellet I am using. It doesn't matter if the manufacturer says that it shoots 1600 fps with a 4.5 grain .177 alloy pellet, if you put a really heavy pellet in it to get its velocity down to about 1000 fps, you will be much better off at range because of the massive difference in the ballistic coefficient. This is just mentioning the BC, not even the whole problem of that pesky sound barrier!

This is all after you find a gun that performs well, and have figured out what kind of pellet it likes. With firearms, they have pretty much figured out what works and what doesn't, but at the present time, it would seem that long-range pellet gun shooting is more of an art learned by trial and error than a science. PCP is probably your best bet, yes even for fifty yards. I would be looking for something with a high energy output in .177 and very heavy pellets to go with it.

That being said... I don't have any PCP guns. Yet. I am just too cheap to get a PCP when it costs more than a .22 LR! Forget a .22 LR, they are more expensive than many sporterized or beat up Mausers! And... as my name implies, I like Mausers. So... being short of a good PCP gun, I have used my cheaper break-barrels to good success out to about fifty yards. I have used them to some success out to and a little beyond 100 yards. Obviously not as good as you are looking for, and really not good enough for anything but "fun shooting", but at least it is something. I have never used a gas piston, but from what I read about them, I'm not going to get one anytime soon. But if you don't already have a coil-spring gun, it might be worth it for you.

Looking at the above group, it would appear that your gun just doesn't "like" those pellets. I don't know why your shots were high. As an aside, none of my guns (break barrel and multi-pump pneumatics) like GAMO brand pellets.

Just as a disclaimer, I am in no way an expert in the field of air rifles (or any other field for that matter). Neither am I a physicist in any sense of the word. I just try to understand "why". Sometimes it helps, and sometimes it doesn't.

Wow, that ended up being a long post...
 
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Spring piston guns recoil BEFORE the projectile starts moving. That's because the recoil in a spring piston gun (nitro/gas or metal spring doesn't matter) is due to the movement of the piston which compresses the air that moves the pellet.

So the trigger releases the piston and the piston slams forward compressing the air in the chamber. When the pressure rises high enough, THEN the pellet starts moving. Somewhere in there the piston comes to a stop and may either hit the front of the chamber and rebound or may bounce back from the cushion of high-pressure air. That causes the gun to recoil forward somewhat. The recoil due to pellet movement is lost in all that other motion.

All that to say that when you change pellets, you almost certainly change the point in the recoil cycle of the piston at which the pellet starts to move and also how long it stays in the barrel relative to how the piston is generating recoil. That will change the impact on the target. A slower/heavier/tighter fitting pellet would likely hit higher on the target (especially at closer ranges) because the muzzle will probably have lifted more in recoil before the pellet exits the bore. Once you stretch the distance out a ways to the point where the pellet is falling pretty fast, then other factors may have more effect on the impact point.

By the way, your gun does not "like" those pellets. Spring piston guns are often very picky about what pellets they "like" or don't "like". Some airgun sellers offer pellet samplers to allow a shooter to try a wide variety of pellets without having to buy a full tin of each kind they want to test.
 
GO'B, what range did you zero the scope at? Did you go back to a known pellet to verify the scope and mounts aren't at fault?

OT- Personally, my ~50 yard "range" (below) is about as far as I would want to shoot with open sights. I can hit the hanging plastic mayo jar basically every time when I shoot with a pellet gun (Gamo 1000 Shadow or QB78), but it's more of a challenge when shooting my BB guns. On a good day with the wind still I can average 2 out of 3 with my hopped up Daisy model 74 once I get my range- but if there's any wind, all bets are off. I don't do quite as well with the hot-rodded Daisy lever action BB guns, mostly because I lose the cheek weld every time I cock them, but I can do 50/50 pretty consistently.

ETA- swmbo (and a capable shot in her own right) read this post and called BS on me. I was adamant it was accurate- I am careful to be accurate and honest, but despite what I truly believed, the facts do not bear out my claims and I'm embarrassed to have to say I exaggerated my abilities. The actual numbers are more like 50/50 with the 74 and 25/75 w/the lever guns. Memory is a strange thing...

AAFRONT_YARD_140_FT_TARGET.jpg
 
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Even the fastest spring guns 1100 is pretty fast with a med weight pellet. Springers also have a weight range they operate with best, mostly med/med heavys, so for a .22 14-16grns.
Those 22grns probably are out of the operational range. From my understanding they can also cause Dieseling, or detonation in the compression chamber resulting in greater noise, odd poi, and in worst case damage to your gun and yourself. Not trying to freak you out, this is just what i remember from bout 10 years ago when i was into springers.

50yds, is a pretty decent distance to shoot an average airgun at, I like plinking cans at that range. I have scopes on my airguns, even my little 1322 carbine, so while that dosent exactly extend my range, it makes seeing impacts farther out easier. Outside of that is a pretty good lob, and i like to use the zoom on my scopes to adjust for drop using the lower post. Depending on zero this actually works pretty well, so by the time im out around 100 im using 3 power or so lol.

Agreed value wise a decent .22 is a way better buy than an airgun that will produce similar results. They are really bloody addictive tho, once you get a PCP its hard not to add more, especially since the initial cost in the tanks, pumps, etc are a one time thing....normally. Honestly at this point, If i get back into them (when really) ill probably go strait for something like the Marauder, or perhaps one of the new Texans. I got a Disco locally, and ended up spending probably the cost of the gun again in upgrades, and trinkets, and I made half of them myself lol.
 
Good Ol Boy- you can get into the PCP air rifle game with the Benjamin Maximus. You'd be looking at under $400 for everything- rifle, handpump ect.

Here's a video of a guy shooting up to 90 yards with his.
 
My guess is that in 6 months time there will be decent PCPs at even lower cost. Even now there's a $200.00 shipped PCP, the Varmint, from Mrod-air that have some decent reviews but lack of parts availability and support are the biggest questions I would have. It's a repeater to boot but atm the .22 version isn't available.
 
Lot of the stuff on mrodair looks really neat. I still want a .30 cal to play with i haven't tried those yet, but for the price one of those .22s maybe the way to go.
 
I've taken squirrels and birds with .177 and 22 nitro piston rifles out to 35 - 50 yards. 50 yards is pretty tough to get 5 shot groups consistently under 4" in my experience. Even the nitro piston rifles have a lot going on and are very sensitive to hold.
 
Oh, hey ive got a couple thousand of the jsb exact 15.89grns (i generally call them 16s), if anyone would like to try some ill break up a can for you guys.
 
There are a number of videos on YouTube showing long-range pellet gun shooting, just do a search. Here is just one:
For reference, the guy who posted that video won the airgun benchrest championships awhile back. Definitely not your average airgunner.
 
CubleyCat on Youtube comes to mind :)



I believe Weihrauch is sold here under Beeman... Could be wrong.

These PCP's are expensive, but they're probably your best bet for extreme accuracy at long range. Next best (in my experience) would be a decent multi-pump pneumatic. A cool project would be a souped up Crosman 1377 with extended barrel, upgraded valve/piston etc. Again, awesome custom air gun, but you'll be sitting there pumping quite a bit.

So while cheaper options are not the most convenient, they can be just as accurate as a top-end gun. I wouldn't really trust a spring/piston gun for that kind of precision. But ymmv. The Sheridan Blue Streak .20 caliber was a cool gun, but it appears it's discontinued. Under $200 new, or at least it was. Not a bad option for a cool out of the box pump gun.
 
A cool project would be a souped up Crosman 1377 with extended barrel, upgraded valve/piston etc. Again, awesome custom air gun, but you'll be sitting there pumping quite a bit
My 1322 with its tuned flat top valve, heavy spring, 14" barrel and reinforced linkage i can get 650fps with the 16s and decent accuracy. This is at 20 pumps, ive gone to 25 but i get valve lock an no perceptible increase.

So i agree those would be an option, especially with a longer barrel.
 
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