Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Somebody has put in some range time!
Amazing!
Airsoft-wielding mugger shot by clerk
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Somebody has put in some range time!
Amazing!
Hardtarget
Member
Ten hits! I'm impressed. I'm sure it would be EASY to miss is that kind of stress. I also liked how the officer refered to dead guy as the "deceased robber"...not a victim. I don't think he referred to the BG as a gentleman either. Tough way for the clerk to end the year.
Mark.
Mark.
Pilgrim
Member
Police discourage guns at work
By BRIAN WALKER
Staff writer
Having weapon at business can easily backfire on employee
POST FALLS -- Having a gun behind the counter may have protected a smoke shop clerk during an armed robbery attempt on Monday night and the case could be a deterrent to those contemplating the crime.
But some police officials still recommend not having a firearm at most businesses.
"This situation appears to have worked in (the clerk's) favor, but in many cases across the U.S. it doesn't happen that way," said Post Falls Police Lt. Scot Haug, who teaches a defensive tactics and use of force course at North Idaho College.
"You always want to discourage a shootout."
Having a weapon at a business can easily backfire on the employee, Haug said.
"What can happen is that the weapon could be turned around and used on them or bystanders can be at risk," he said. "In some types of business settings, having a firearm can cause more problems than benefits. Overall, we'd recommend not having a gun involved in these situations, but it's certainly up to the business and well within their right to have it there."
Robbery suspect Joseph Kalani Hatchie, 47, Otis Orchards, Wash., entered Lew's Smoke Shop in State Line on Monday with an unloaded air pistol. He grabbed the male clerk behind the counter, stuck the pistol into his belly and demanded money, the clerk told Kootenai County sheriff's investigators.
When the clerk reached under the counter for a bag, he came up with his own .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol and shot Hatchie 10 times. Hatchie died at the scene. The clerk's name has not been released because no charges have been filed.
Haug said he's not surprised that the clerk had a gun, especially since the smoke shop has been robbed several times in the past. If the clerk felt his life was threatened, Haug does not blame the clerk for taking the action.
It may have been one of those cases where it was justifiable to have a gun at work.
"I'm not taking a side of whether it was right or wrong, and I'm certainly not criticizing this incident," Haug said.
But he said in most cases police would rather see citizens be good witnesses until police arrive on scene.
"We need them to be a good set of eyes so that when we arrive they have a good description of the suspect," Haug said. "Generally, we'd rather not see the public take action to try to stop this type of crime."
The key on whether to allow an employee to have a gun at work is training, Haug said.
"If anyone is carrying a weapon, proper training, when to use it and when not to, is paramount," he said. "We wouldn't want to see anyone packing a gun to work without training."
Haug said weapons at businesses aren't rare or illegal.
"We know of several businesses that keep guns behind the counter," he said. "When you start looking at the crime history at a business, you have a better understanding of why the employee or business owner are taking precautions."
Haug, like Kootenai County sheriff's spokesman Ben Wolfinger, said it wasn't unusual nor surprising for the clerk to shoot Hatchie 10 times.
"With a semi-automatic, you can fire off 10 rounds in a matter a couple seconds," he said. "Before that perceived threat stops, the gun can be empty."
He said people have to put themselves in the clerk's shoes.
"When you go into survival mode, your intent is to stop the threat," Haug said. "And if you stop (firing) prematurely, that threat could come back."
Haug said the case could be a deterrent for those thinking of committing such a crime.
"It certainly would be for me," he said. "I'd think twice before robbing a store. We'll never know the effects for sure, but it should send a message that this kind of stuff happens."
Neither the owner of the smoke shop nor Hatchie's family could be reached for comment.
Kootenai County Prosecutor Bill Douglas will decide whether the shooting was justifiable. The investigation will be presented to him late this week or early next week at the earliest.
Even though the clerk is technically considered a suspect, he was not taken into custody.
The air pistol Hatchie had looks identical to a Walther P-9 semi-automatic, and even has the Walther name on it. It shoots 6-mm plastic pellets.
According to a KXLY TV report, Hatchie was a husband and father of six. Both he and his wife had been laid off from their jobs and were given an eviction notice, the report stated.
Hatchie does not have a criminal record, making the case "rather unique," Wolfinger said.
The sheriff's office released no new details on the case on Wednesday.
http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/12/29/news/news03.txt
By BRIAN WALKER
Staff writer
Having weapon at business can easily backfire on employee
POST FALLS -- Having a gun behind the counter may have protected a smoke shop clerk during an armed robbery attempt on Monday night and the case could be a deterrent to those contemplating the crime.
But some police officials still recommend not having a firearm at most businesses.
"This situation appears to have worked in (the clerk's) favor, but in many cases across the U.S. it doesn't happen that way," said Post Falls Police Lt. Scot Haug, who teaches a defensive tactics and use of force course at North Idaho College.
"You always want to discourage a shootout."
Having a weapon at a business can easily backfire on the employee, Haug said.
"What can happen is that the weapon could be turned around and used on them or bystanders can be at risk," he said. "In some types of business settings, having a firearm can cause more problems than benefits. Overall, we'd recommend not having a gun involved in these situations, but it's certainly up to the business and well within their right to have it there."
Robbery suspect Joseph Kalani Hatchie, 47, Otis Orchards, Wash., entered Lew's Smoke Shop in State Line on Monday with an unloaded air pistol. He grabbed the male clerk behind the counter, stuck the pistol into his belly and demanded money, the clerk told Kootenai County sheriff's investigators.
When the clerk reached under the counter for a bag, he came up with his own .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol and shot Hatchie 10 times. Hatchie died at the scene. The clerk's name has not been released because no charges have been filed.
Haug said he's not surprised that the clerk had a gun, especially since the smoke shop has been robbed several times in the past. If the clerk felt his life was threatened, Haug does not blame the clerk for taking the action.
It may have been one of those cases where it was justifiable to have a gun at work.
"I'm not taking a side of whether it was right or wrong, and I'm certainly not criticizing this incident," Haug said.
But he said in most cases police would rather see citizens be good witnesses until police arrive on scene.
"We need them to be a good set of eyes so that when we arrive they have a good description of the suspect," Haug said. "Generally, we'd rather not see the public take action to try to stop this type of crime."
The key on whether to allow an employee to have a gun at work is training, Haug said.
"If anyone is carrying a weapon, proper training, when to use it and when not to, is paramount," he said. "We wouldn't want to see anyone packing a gun to work without training."
Haug said weapons at businesses aren't rare or illegal.
"We know of several businesses that keep guns behind the counter," he said. "When you start looking at the crime history at a business, you have a better understanding of why the employee or business owner are taking precautions."
Haug, like Kootenai County sheriff's spokesman Ben Wolfinger, said it wasn't unusual nor surprising for the clerk to shoot Hatchie 10 times.
"With a semi-automatic, you can fire off 10 rounds in a matter a couple seconds," he said. "Before that perceived threat stops, the gun can be empty."
He said people have to put themselves in the clerk's shoes.
"When you go into survival mode, your intent is to stop the threat," Haug said. "And if you stop (firing) prematurely, that threat could come back."
Haug said the case could be a deterrent for those thinking of committing such a crime.
"It certainly would be for me," he said. "I'd think twice before robbing a store. We'll never know the effects for sure, but it should send a message that this kind of stuff happens."
Neither the owner of the smoke shop nor Hatchie's family could be reached for comment.
Kootenai County Prosecutor Bill Douglas will decide whether the shooting was justifiable. The investigation will be presented to him late this week or early next week at the earliest.
Even though the clerk is technically considered a suspect, he was not taken into custody.
The air pistol Hatchie had looks identical to a Walther P-9 semi-automatic, and even has the Walther name on it. It shoots 6-mm plastic pellets.
According to a KXLY TV report, Hatchie was a husband and father of six. Both he and his wife had been laid off from their jobs and were given an eviction notice, the report stated.
Hatchie does not have a criminal record, making the case "rather unique," Wolfinger said.
The sheriff's office released no new details on the case on Wednesday.
http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/12/29/news/news03.txt
carebear
Member
That's a pretty fair set of statements for a guy who has to represent the city (potential liability wise)
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