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AK-47 Accuracy or not

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by MGK, Feb 11, 2006.

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  1. MGK

    MGK Member

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    I picked up a Romanian Wasr-3, .223 caliber, not 7.62x39, at fifty yards, from a rest I am getting 4-5" groups, from 100 yards my groups are all over the place 12 - 18". Tried different ammo (Winchester, Remington, Brown Bear, Wolf) all yield about the same results. Everything appears to be tight. Anything I should be checking to improve the groups or is this as "GOOD" as it gets? What sizr groups should I expect?

    MGK
     
  2. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    Hmmm. Maybe your trigger is in need of some polishing? Is it gritty and creepy? Are you pulling rather than squeezing? The gun should shoot better than that.
     
  3. ghost squire

    ghost squire member

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    Out of curiosity, what is the accuracy of the average AK?
     
  4. EghtySx

    EghtySx Member

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    I get 3 to 4 inches from my SAR-1 in 7.62. I think thats about average.
     
  5. garrett1955

    garrett1955 Member

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    do you have a slant brake on it??? if so put some teflon tape on the threads. that will keep it from wabling and improve your groups a lot!:)
     
  6. thunder

    thunder Member

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    Is that at 100 yds EghtySx? The AK is somewhat notorious for it's inaccuracy. I've no experience and too have wondered how true these rumors are.
     
  7. ribbonstone

    ribbonstone Member

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    Call it 4MOA for a good example....but not with the cheap mil.surp. ammo.

    Seldom get a direct expanion of groups with range...2" at 50 doesn't "have" to work out to 4" at 100, but going from 4-5" groups at 50 to 12-14" groups at 100 does indicate something not being right. Most likely, it's the iron sights and the shooter...AK sights are pretty close set, so a tiny error results in a large movement on the target. Sights are best (and perhaps kindly) described as "coarse".
     
  8. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    It has been my experience that almost every single WASR I've ever seen had an uneven, and also, rounded crown. That's 2 negatives right there. I've seen dozens and don't recall a single one I'd want to own.


    Check yours. If that's what you see, find a gunsmith who can fix that. That should cut your groups down in half at least. The AK isn't going to be an MOA gun, but the groups you describe are terrible even for an AK.
     
  9. Rambosky

    Rambosky Member

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    The AK47 was originally designed as a full auto assault rifle with loose tolerances for minimal maintenance. Sniper rifle it's not. Don't get caught up in spending money in order to make it something it's not.
     
  10. MGK

    MGK Member

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    Don't tread on me

    It does indeed have a rounded crown on it. I may a have smith look at it and get it recrowned.


    Rambosky
    I have other rifles for sniping, just looking to be average 4-5 moa, would be acceptable

    Anything else to check out, thanks for the ideas
     
  11. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Have that smith level it, then cut it nice and sharp. That will help immensly!!


    Why do you suppose that everyone raves on and on about the Bulgarians, Vepr's and Saigas? There is nothing special about them accuracy wise. They just have nice clean even sharp crowns!!


    It shouldn't cost much. Make sure he touches up the finish on the end after he does the work.
     
  12. MGK

    MGK Member

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    Don't tread on me

    I'll see if I can find a smith that will do it. Been a while since I had a smith do any work.


    MGK
     
  13. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    I can keep em 4 MOA at 50 yards from a knee with Wolf from my Rommie 7.62. Bench accuracy at 100 yards is about 4 MOA as well. I am expecting better when I get a scope on it--either a PK-AS or Kobra. I just replied similarly to Colt's thread but the AK should be easily COM at 200 or 300 yards. Something is wrong with your rifle.

    AKs may not be poodle shooters, but they are certainly accurate enough for their purpose--Minute Of Bad Guy out to 300 yards.
     
  14. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    As long as your scope isnt loose you should be getting 5 moa or less even with cheap ammo. 16 moa is crazy unless you were practicing during a hurricane.
     
  15. EghtySx

    EghtySx Member

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    Yessir. 100 yards.
     
  16. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Get a better AK?

    My Vepr K in 7.62 will easily do 4" or 5" at 100 yards. I haven't heard too much experience with .223 AK's. There have been those on this site who have gotten decent accuracy with the Romanians.
     
  17. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2006
  18. clange

    clange Member

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    My SAR-1 has done .8" at 60-65 yards with a red dot. Until I added a red dot, and really took my time, the best it would do was 6-8" at 100. My MAK-90 was similar.

    The irons are horrible, for me at least, and the wolf ammo probably doent help either. If I had never shot that group I'd be another guy on here saying AKs have bad accuracy. The rifle is clearly more accurate than I am.

    I'm not saying thats the case here, it sounds like something is really wrong with yours, I'm just saying that the AKs reputation for horrible accuracy isnt deserved from what I've seen.
     
  19. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    Clange, I agree. The short sight radius and overall poor design of the sights is largely responsible for the AK's reputation for being inaccurate. The Mojos help, but can't remedy the rifle's short sight radius. I can't wait to get a good red dot on my AK and see what it is really capable of.
     
  20. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Dunno about the other ones, but the Vepr also benefits from having a nice stiff barrel and receiver, too.

    Clearances, actually.

    Well, I'd say that the original purpose of the AK was "Minute of Good Guy out to 300 yards", but that's just me. :D

    Mike
     
  21. Firehand

    Firehand Member

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    Among other things I've found out that affect accuracy,
    1. polishing the trigger helps a bit
    2. fitting the gas tube. If it fits really tight, it tends to force the barrel to shift when things get hot.
     
  22. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Yes, the high end AK's do benefit from a stiffer action and stiffer barrel...but that is not the main factor in accuracy.


    The guy posted that his crown was rounded, just as I suggested it might be. That's what's giving him horrible accuracy. Once he fixes that, his WASR should be shooting close to the higher-end AK's.
     
  23. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    MGK, if I had to guess, your problem is probably the sights; I couldn't shoot my SAR-1 worth crap until I opened up the rear sight notch a little with a sharp V-file, so that I could actually see the entire front sight post. I've gotten 2.5" groups at 50 yards, both with and without optics, though not always consistently.

    Having said that, also check your benchresting technique. The AK design is very sensitive to how it's benchrested and it's not an easy rifle to shoot from a rest. A fairly firm rest placed under the handguard will cause the rifle to jump off the rest when fired, when the heavy gas piston gets launched toward the rear while the bullet is still in the barrel. I've had best results with a softer bag (suede bag filled 3/4 full with corncob, sitting on top a benchrest), with the bag placed as far to the rear as possible--ideally touching the front of the magazine--and also using a rear bag under the butt. The further to the rear the rifle is supported, the more stable it will be. Also try to keep the downward pressure consistent from shot to shot.
     
  24. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    Accuracy of my Bulgarian SA93

    I get a fairly consistant 3 inches, +/- at 100 meters. I have been shooting the Wolf 124 grain HP for years.
     
  25. MGK

    MGK Member

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    BenEzra

    I'll look at the sights and think about what you said. Your comments about a semi auto on a benchrest interest me, any thoughts beyond what you wrote?
    I usually shoot bolt action rifles with no issues, but their is a difference between semi-action and bolt action rifles on a bench rest.

    Anyone else have thoughts about benchresting and semiautos?

    The Wasr 3 came with a Tapco G2 trigger, so the trigger action seems to be fine. Barrel appears tight, but is it square to the reciever, don't know.

    These guns come in as parts kits and are assembled in the US, how good is the work? don't know?

    The target I got with the rifle showed a reasonable groups (2" group). Distance shot at? don't know Ammo used? don't know? Ranson rest used? don't know? From the rifle I bought? don't know.

    The best I have ever done is a 4" group @ 50 yds with this rifle, have put about 200 rounds through it.
     
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