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Ak-47 Parts Kit

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by A_Matthew, Dec 23, 2010.

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  1. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with building AK47's from a parts kit. I found a Bulgarian kit at J&G Sales for $99.:what:


    http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/bulgarian-ak47-milled-parts-kit-/products_id/4424

    Has anyone here had any experience with it? Is it a good starter kit? (This would be my first one.) Also, if you know of a kit for a comparable price that is of higher quality, easy for a first timer, or just plain better, please reply.:)

    Merry Christmas!
     
  2. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

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    Not sure about that kit.....each one is different and I've seen hundreds. Do you have any idea who you would get to build the receiver, and put it togather? I can give you some info if you need.
     
  3. hexidismal

    hexidismal Member

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    No experience with that particular kit, but with others yes. That one.. would be a lot of work, and very expensive to complete. First off, and probably most importantly those kits are for milled receivers. Pretty expensive to buy a milled receiver. Think somewhere between $400-$500 as opposed to buying a new stamped receiver for just under $100. No included barrel. That can be a good thing though, as there are some good American made barrels out there now at relatively reasonable prices.. also takes care of one more 922 compliance part. But that's another $150 or so. It does say it might be missing some small parts. That can be an issue, but you can buy them all individually. And would have to do so, for the rest of your compliance parts. Figure in some money for that though. Say another hundred. Then on top of all that , the kits look pretty rough so you'd need to do a LOT of cleanup and no doubt refinishing.. so add on that cost.

    In the end, after all the work it would take, you'd be spending probably considerably more than a new off the rack top of the line AK like an Arsenal.
     
  4. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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  5. Ian

    Ian Member

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    If you don't have a matching original barrel, front trunnion, and bolt you will need to check and possibly tweak the headspacing. With matching parts, it's pretty much a sure bet that they will headspace fine when reassembled.

    If you're doing this to save money, forget it and buy a complete gun. The tooling and components will cost more than a new gun. If you're doing it for the experience, you just need to decide how much challenge you want to take on. It can range from buying an older kit with an intact barrel and buying a 100% receiver from a company like NoDak Spud to buying a milled kit and a chopped milled receiver from Apex and rewelding it or bending your own receiver from a flat blank. You can find original barrels or new-made US ones. Heck, you could use a cut barrel stub to make an AK pistol, if that's your thing.
     
  6. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    The main reason I would do this is because the gun would not be registered. Their aren't too many used AK's around nowadays, and I certainly wouldn't want to have my go-to gun be registered. The second reason would be for experience.

    How hard is it to adjust the headspacing? If it's really hard, then I guess I better find a kit with matching parts. If not, then I would probably just work around it.:confused::confused::confused:

    Matthew
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    There's gun registration in ID?
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Lots of good info here.
    http://www.ak-47.us/AK-Build.php

    The problem as I see it is, all the real good parts kits were gone about 5 years ago.

    What's left for sale now is an over-priced crap-shoot.

    BTW What is this ID "regestration" of which you speak?

    rc
     
  9. Wildbillz

    Wildbillz Member

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    Worst part of that kit is there is no barrel with it. You will need to get a barrel and press the sight bases and gas block on. Then you may have to drill the gas port and thread the muzzle. If you look around you can find a kit wit the orignal barrel in it. They run a bit more but then you don't have to worry about getting the bases on right.

    A build in a nut shell gose somting like this.

    To do a compleat build you will have to first demil the kit. A grinder, drill press and bits, a press, Big hammer a even bigger vise, some punches and a few other assorted tools . You first need strip off the wood stock and hand guards. Knock out the barrel pin. Then press the barrel out of the trunion. Use the grinder to grind the rivet heads flat (be carful not to hit the trunion with the grinder) Center punch (as dead center on the rivet shank as you can) and drill the old rivets out of the front trunion. Start small and work your way up in size (dont oblong the rivet holes in the trunion or oversize them). Then remove the old recever shell scrap. Fit the front trunion to the new receiver shell. Dimple the two lower holes and use a riviting jig to revit the trunion to the shell. Then you use the press to push the barrle back into the trunion and line the hole for the barrel pin back up. Check headspace and if its good put the pin back in. Grind down the old rivet heads on the rear trunion and drill them out with out going through the side of the trunion (trick is to do a bit from each side that way if you go throug its on the inside and no one sees it) Fit the rear truion in place and rivet it uing the rivet jig. Spray paint to match and put the wood back on it. Add your US made H, T, S and your good to go.

    As for a receiver I would recomend the NDS ones http://www.nodakspud.com/ they are good and of high quality mfg. Then your going to need 922R compliance parts to build it up. The recever counts as 1. Hammer, Trigger & Sear from Tapco (G2 single hook ones) gives you three more. Add a Pistol grip and muzzle device and you should have enough US made parts to stay on the right side of the law.

    As for tools its all ways easyer with the right tools. You can get by with out some but the quality of the job suffers. I have seen barrels put back on with a vise a hammer and a block of copper or a threaded rod. The right jigs for riviting are going to cost a couple of $100. The press a $125 or so from Harbor freght tools. So if its just a one time thing it might not be the best bet seeing as a quality build from a smith can be had for $300.

    If your set on building your own (it is a lot of fun) go to

    the AK files http://www.akfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

    or the AK forum http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=05fc109d52c2bd8996dfd84208258897

    and look for a build party going on in your area. You will get the use of others experance and the tools to do it right should be there.

    Best of luck
    WildBill
     
  10. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    Sam1911 and rcmodel: when I say 'registered' what I really mean is that you have to fill out a piece of paper with your address, DOB, whether or not you are an illegal alien, whether or not you are in trouble with the police....:uhoh: Now what the gunshop does with the paper, I'm not sure. I do know one thing: they don't send it to the government. The government can 'seize' the papers if they want, I think. But they don't do it every day, I know that. Now let's say I saw an ad in the local paper (Nickle's Worth) for an AK. If I answered the ad, met the guy and purchased it, I would not have to fill out any paperwork. So what I meant by saying I didn't want to have a registered AK, what I really meant, was I didn't want the government to one day, 'seize' the papers, and find out that I owned an AK. (AK's never have had a good impression on the anti-guners.) So I can now do three things. 1. Buy one over the internet and have it shipped to an FFL dealer thereby automatically 'registering' it. (Because I would have to fill out the paperwork.) 2. Waiting until a local gun shop gets one in, but the chance of that happening is 1:1,000,000. Once again, it would now be 'registered'. 3. Build one from a parts kit!:D:D:D (And of course, option 3 is the best;))
    As far as I know, this is how it works.


    Thanks, that is some good information.

    It tells me I need to be registered to access the pages.:confused::confused::confused:

    Wildbill: we (my family) have almost everything you listed (except a drill press, but if worse came to worse, I could take it to my friends house who does). In that case, would all I need is money, time, and a place to work? Since we don't have a jig for riveting, I would either weld it, or I would use screws and Loctite. I might be able to make do without a press, or find someone who does.

    If it wasn't for the registering issues, (see above) I would definitely buy it new. I would much rather spend the time building one and NOT having it 'registered' than buying one AND having it 'registered'. I hope you understand my position.:)

    Is $375 to much to pay for this?

    https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/51/products_id/1528

    If anyone knows of a website that has a '47 parts kits with original barrel, please post!

    Thank you for all your posts. Very informative. Keep 'em coming!:)

    P.S. Since I'm actually under 18, when I say 'I'm going to buy a gun', what I actually mean is that my dad would buy it, sign the papers etc etc etc... and I would pay for it. (Just so you don't misunderstand.)
     
  11. migkillertwo

    migkillertwo Member

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    are you sure you actually have the tools to build an AK? I mean, the barrel has to be pressed into the trunion and then pinned into place to within a few thousandths of an inch.

    Oh, and I might be wrong, but aren't imported and nodak spud receivers heat-treated after bending?
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh, no. Unfortunately, you've just described a "straw-man" purchase which is against the law. He may buy it to GIVE to you, but he may not purchase it for you with your money. Doing so exactly as you've said would be against federal law.

    I understand the "registered" comment as you intended it (regarding the dealer keeping the 4473 form). It isn't a gun registration by all but the most "liberal" definitions, and doesn't track ownership beyond that point of sale, but a fair number of folks do wish for "un-papered" guns, so private sales are appealing and home-builds can be as well.

    I've built guns on home-bent flats. They can work. When a complete parts kit was $80 -- with a flat included -- they were a good way to make a cheap gun.

    Now, when the parts kit alone is going to cost several hundred, plus your time and effort to construct it, you'll probably find yourself wanting to re-build it on a commercial receiver at some later point.

    But, your mileage may vary.
     
  13. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    Oops!

    Sam: Thanks for alerting me to that fact. I'll definitely keep it in mind.

    migkillertwo: If you buy the kit with the barrel already in place, I've read that if you use screws instead of rivets, you don't have to take the barrel out. Another guy said that if you do take it out, but use the same barrel, same trunnion, and same pin hole, you shouldn't have to worry to much about the headspace. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

    I looked it up on their website, and they do temper their receivers after bending. If I did bend my own receiver, I know quite a few people who are pretty good at tempering steel.
    Thanks again. Matthew
     
  14. onebigelf

    onebigelf Member

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    You can temper the holes that need to be hardened yourself. There are plenty of instructions. A few years ago, when complete matching kits were $89 and a factory built receiver was $55 (or you could bend a $15 flat) building a kit made sense. My first AK cost me less well under $200 and is still running. I eventually made a gift of it to a friend. These days? Find a used private purchase AK if you are worried about a paper trail. Most any gun show there's somebody carrying one around looking for a buyer and the dealers won't give you parts value for one (ie, you could make more parting it out). So they go to private buyers, frequently very reasonably.

    John
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You are on the verge of needing a tin-foil hat to keep the black helicopters from seeing everything you do in the privacy of your bedroom.

    Your concern may be valid, but you didn't follow through far enough.
    By your own admission, you can by an AK-47 face-to-face with no paperwork.
    That also means you can sell an AK-47 face-to-face with no paperwork just as easily.

    When the Storm-Troopers come to get your store-bought AK-47?
    Tell them it turns out you didn't like it at all, so you sold it to some guy in a Walmart parking lot a week after you bought it.
    And you didn't bother to get his name.

    BTW: Even if you try to build one, and buy a drilled & bent receiver, the receiver has to have a ATF Form 4473 filled out on it & a backround check done.
    Because it has a serial number on it, and is the "gun" in the eyes of the law.

    rc
     
  16. hirundo82

    hirundo82 Member

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    As Sam said, what you are describing it an illegal straw sale under federal law, since the person buying the gun isn't the actual purchaser. Your father could buy you the gun for a gift-- that would be legal.

    Another option is that, according to the NRA info on Idaho gun laws, a person who is at least 16 but not yet 18 years old can purchase and possess a firearm with written permission from a parent.

    As far as I am aware, you can build your own Title I firearm without any notification of the ATF, and you aren't required to give it a serial number unless it is to be sold.

    Companies sell 80% complete AK receivers (the max amount of changing you can do to the piece of sheet metal before the Feds decree you have made a gun), and you can do the rest of the making, giving you a gun where nothing has been tracked by the Feds.

    It's not something I've ever done, but a lot of people will go to that length to get a gun that is completely "off the books."
     
  17. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    That's a kind way of saying "We don't want any new folks joining us".

    Gunco.net is a community of builders. Those guys build whatever they set their minds to.
    AK Files is also a good source of info.
     
  18. akolleth

    akolleth Member

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    That little bit trash talking the AKforum was really uncalled for. Actually the AKForum (where I frequently hang out) is one of the nicer, more polite internet forums out there. I would dare say it even rivals THR in terms of friendliness. And yes, we do welcome new members contrary to what some people said in this thread.

    All it takes is two minutes of your time to register to view ALL the forums and threads, unlike some forums which require donations.

    So please A-Matthew, if you are serious about learning to build an AK the right way check us out and peruse the hundreds of pages devoted in the BIY section to just that.

    AKForum.net
     
  19. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    Just to make sure that my intentions are not misread, let me clarify something. The only reason I wouldn't want my gun being registered is this: if You Know Who re-institutes the semi-auto gun ban, (or passes a new one) I wouldn't want my go-to gun being registered and risk having it be taken away.:fire: I just didn't want you to think that I was worried about registration for other reasons.:uhoh: Now, I could follow Rcmodels advice, but that would mean they might come to my house, and get a search warrant because they didn't believe my excuse, find the gun, and now I'd be in more trouble than if I had just prevented it in the first place.:rolleyes:

    The reason I commented on not being able to view it without registering first was because my dad likes to check things out before I become a member. He's been busy lately, so I'll just have wait until he has time to sit down and look it over. Looks good though, from what I have seen. So if in the next couple of weeks, you find a new member with the username, A_Matthew that will be me!

    This is what I'm probably going to do.

    Two more years, and I can buy my own gun!:D:D:D (With parents permission, of course.)



    I think I have decided on a kit.

    http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct807.aspx

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks for all your help, guys. Its been very helpfull to a newbie.:)
    Matthew
     
  20. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    I'm about ready to order a couple of 80% flats, but some of the flat descriptions say "Made for folding stocks." Other flats say, "Made for fixed stocks." In other words, depending on what flat I buy, I am the stuck with that option of stock for the rest of my life? Example: I buy the flat for fixed stocks. After owning the AK for awhile, I would like to put a folding stock on the gun, but can't because the flat was designed for fixed stocks? Please enlighten me. Thanks, Matthew
     
  21. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    IMHO, you should buy the flat with the least "work" already done with it.

    Every country's underfolders used a different pattern for their stock attachment, so buying a flat "made for underfolders" will be a gamble.

    With a regular flat (aka one for "fixed stocks"), you can use it on a fixed, side- or underfolder, and cut the holes necessary for your particular kit.
     
  22. A_Matthew

    A_Matthew Member

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    :confused::confused::confused: Could you please explain?

    Thanks for the help. I was looking at some commercial folding stocks, and now it all makes sense.:) Matthew
     
  23. Strykervet

    Strykervet member

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    I don't think that would technically be a straw man purchase since he is under 18. If he is claimed as a tax exemption and lives at home, then his money is technically his father's money, right? What would be illegal is for his father to purchase the rifle and GIVE it to a minor... He can purchase the weapon and ALLOW his son to use it as allowed by local laws, and he can give it to him once he turns 18.

    In this case, for the father to purchase the weapon for the son is okay, it doesn't matter whose money it is. The son can gift the money to the father and the father can gift the rifle to the son --but the rifle is the sole responsibility of the father.

    Now I think there is some provision that the purchaser has to keep the weapon for some time in order not to become and unlawful dealer... But I think they assess this case by case... One weapon father to son would be hard to prosecute as unlawful dealing.

    If I am wrong, please let me know.
     
  24. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Member

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    That's an unhealthy level of paranoia for a 14-year-old.

    Let me put it to you this way: my brother-in-law is not a "gun nut." But if the authorities came to seize his guns, they would be prying them from his proverbial "cold dead hands."

    If someone who doesn't otherwise really care about guns feels this way, do you think the American people would stand for gun seizures?

    I guess it's understandable: I was fairly impressionable when I was 14, and Red Dawn seemed like a really cool movie. But you really need to reexamine your assumptions. You don't need an "unpapered" gun for any political reasons.

    With all that said, building guns is fun, and as long as your father approves, you should definitely get into the hobby. If you want help from some really good guys, check out this forum:

    http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuilder/index.php

    That's Weapons Guild. Plenty of info on building AKs there, as well as any other type of firearm imaginable. They even do completely home built guns. Lots of good info to browse and it's a "family friendly" forum with a close-knit group of builders who will generally help out newbies with advice AND parts.

    Aaron
     
  25. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    You want a flat that only has the holes that are common to all Kalashnikovs.

    Basically that is just the trigger and trigger guard and magazine holes, as the stock holes and trunnion holes vary from country to country.

    It doesn't do you much good to buy a flat with holes in it that you'll have to weld up and redrill in the proper place, right?
     
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