AK optics

[SSN Vet]

I'm saving my pennies to put a KOBRA on my converted Saiga x39.

Wrt. ballance, I think this will suit my preferences better.

I find even the 16" AKs to be slightly front heavy, so anything installed aft of the C.O.G. (fwd. edge of mag well), should help to ballance the rifle.

I can't help but think that any type of scout mount would change the rifle from slightly front heavy to very front heavy.

 

[blackcash88]

Thanks for the link, but it still looks like I'd have to drill/tap or rivet the side plate on, right? There's no extra holes that aren't riveted on the left side of my receiver.

 

[AK103K]

I am very partial to Aimpoints on Ultimak rails.

Me too.

The Ultimak/Aimpoint set up is really the best solution. With the sight mounted forward on a low ring, the dot will cowitness with your irons and its out of your way, both in handling and field of view. The rifle shoulders and shoots naturally with the same cheek weld as your iron sights.

Nothing wrong with Russian optics, like anything else Russian, its well made, and built like a tank. They are just lacking in placement and use.

 

[blackcash88]

Does it make the rifle nose heavy at all?

 

[Deer Hunter]

I am very partial to Aimpoints on Ultimak rails. The Ultimak mounts are much more solid than the siderail mounts

Ever tested that theory? My Saiga has a POSP mounted on a siderail and it is insanly sturdy.

 

[SSN Vet]

I thought one of the Russian side mounts (not sure which one, but I'd like to know) was a low rise, barely clearing the receiver cover.

seems like this would do the trick

 

[MechAg94]

The Kobra and the side mounted rail I have both sit just over the receiver cover more me. No cheek weld issues for me at least. On my Vepr, they are also lined up with the center of the rifle also. The Kobra was centered well on my Saiga conversion also.

I might try the Ultimak for my Tantal 5.45 rifle as it has no side rail. We'll see.

 

[briansmithwins]

I've owned rifle with both screwed-on and riveted optics siderails. There is very little difference cosmetically, and no difference mechanically.

As for the Ultimak, 2 words: corrosive ammo.

BSW

 

[blackcash88]

Brian, how the heck do you mount the screwed on side rails? I don't have any "extra" holes in my receiver. Would I have to drill/tap some? If not, what does the rail screw on to?

 

[AK103K]

Does it make the rifle nose heavy at all?

Not at all.

...and no difference mechanically.

as long as they are installed properly.

As for the Ultimak, 2 words: corrosive ammo.

2 more.... so what?

 

[nalioth]

how the heck do you mount the screwed on side rails? I don't have any "extra" holes in my receiver. Would I have to drill/tap some? If not, what does the rail screw on to?

Depending on which rail you get, you will need to drill at least two holes in your receiver. When the commies assemble a rifle, the end most hole in the rail is riveted to the forward block rivet and two extra holes are used for riveting the other holes. Tapping would depend on you got the rail with the screws or not.

 

[Omnivore]

I'll go ahead and chime in here. As the designer of the UltiMAK AK forward optic mount, I say use all the corrosive ammo you want. AL oxide is practically inert, and less susceptible than the steel parts of the AK. If you swab the piston bore from behind, three or four times in a lifetime, you're ahead of the game.

Some people have no problem with a taller optic, and some side mounts have less rise than others, but the UltiMAK mount is as low as physically possible, so as to optimise with the original AK comb height. Co-witnessing is only a side benefit for those who are interested. On that note; I've fired in excess of 10K rounds with the UltiMAK/Aimpoint combo in all sorts of conditions, and I can't recall ever actually using the irons through the Aimpoint even once. But they are there, I suppose. One thing co-witnessing does for you, and it only does it once, is it allows you to get a pretty good "zero shot zero". You align the irons visually, and adjust 'till your dot sits on top of the front post (do this with a very low dot intensity, which is also useful for the most accurate fire when shooting from the bench). Always confirm zero on paper, 'cause it'll never be exact until you shoot and adjust that way.

We're working on a new side mount design, so I can't say much against side rail mounts, except that some of them are extREMEly high, and others not so much. It's also a matter of where you want your optic; front or back.

As for the weight-- the UltiMAK mount adds less than an ounce to most AKs (I say "most" because it depends on the weight of the original gas tube/upper handguard assembly that's being replaced). Interestingly, installing the model M9 mount actually reduces the weight of a synth-stocked Yugo M70. Put on an Aimpoint Micro, and your total M70 rifle weight has been increased by about 2.5 or 3 ounces, IIRC. If weight is a big issue, add up the weight of the steel side rail (assuming you're deciding on an AK that has one vs. an AK that doesn't) the side rail mount, and the rings/base if applicable).

I'll shut up now or I'll be accused of proselytizing. Just wanted to state some specs, since people were asking. I don't post in RifleCountry very often, but this thread seemed to have my name on it.

 

[R127]

I had an Ultimak on one of my AK's. It did a decent job for the most part but has a significant downfall if you're using it for more than just shooting on the range. AK gas tubes get hot fast and obviously have been known to melt polymer handguards and ignite wooden ones. Aluminum gets just as hot and does so very quickly. It sure sucks to have to handle your rifle in a more dynamic way and grab some hot Ultimak. A forward pistol grip helps a lot, then you just have to worry about thermal dammage to the optic and brushing the upper handguard against your body. It has its positives and negatives. I think the rocker mount or side mount avoid the pitfalls but still give most of the same benefits. YMMV

 

[MD_Willington]

Just got my Kobra in the mail today

 

[phoglund]

vzenmn

Anybody have a review on the Kobra on their AR? And what do they usually cost?

I have a Kobra on my AR and think it's a great red dot sight for a great price. Ruggedly built and easy to use with several options for brightness and type of reticle. (Note that they will not co-witness using a standard flat top receiver.)

The price is comparable to the side rail mount types priced earlier in the thread.

 

[AK103K]

Aluminum gets just as hot and does so very quickly. It sure sucks to have to handle your rifle in a more dynamic way and grab some hot Ultimak.

Aluminum is much better than steel in this respect, it retains heat less, and cools much quicker. The Ultmak does not stay hot long, and cools quicker than the original wood/steel handguard..

I've shot my AK's fast and furious to the point you could not touch the barrel, and I never had any issues with handling either of them with one mounted due to heat nor has the heat been an issue with any of the optics that were mounted on them.

 

[benEzra]

The only downside to the side rail I can see is that it does cover the top cover.

Not really an issue, because the optics hold zero when removed and replaced from the siderail, and you can remove the top cover without removing the optic (though you'll need to remove the optic to get the bolt carrier out).

 

[rbernie]

My Saiga has a POSP mounted on a siderail and it is insanly sturdy.

The mount may be sturdy, but the sidewall of the receiver is not. Even with a quality low mount (of which I have three, BTW), the scope noticably deflects laterally under pressure with a siderail mount. I've dropped a Kobra-equipped AKM and lost zero as a result. (The Kobra still worked, tho..)

 

[R127]

Aluminum is much better than steel in this respect, it retains heat less, and cools much quicker. The Ultmak does not stay hot long, and cools quicker than the original wood/steel handguard..

Yes, aluminum does bleed heat fast and that's one of the positives to the Ultimak. Still, fire makes metal hot. More exposed hot metal especially in the vicinity of your support hand does have the potential to be a problem depending on what you have to do. On the range it's no sweat, when there are badguys shooting back it may become an issue.

I've shot my AK's fast and furious to the point you could not touch the barrel, and I never had any issues with handling either of them with one mounted due to heat

For the most frequent uses most people put their AK's to I would agree. As long as you never have to do anything that could bring burning hot metal in contact with your skin you're fine. Obviously the same rule applies to the exposed portion of the barrel beyond the handguards too. This is nothing new, take a look at pretty much any of the old bolt action military rifles and all the major ones I can think of at the moment had full length handguards.

nor has the heat been an issue with any of the optics that were mounted on them.

This is an area you have a lot of control over by selecting the right optics so yes, this potential problem is completely avoidable.

I'm not saying Ultimak's suck, they have their strengths and weaknesses like anything else. For hunting hunting or the most likely self defense scenarios you are unlikely to be putting enough rounds through your AK for the problem to materialize. For range use it doesn't matter because you have 100% control over the environment and never will have to do anything potentially risky.

 

[ZombiesAhead]

I love my PK-AS side-mount on my WASR - purchased from Tantal. I'm thinking about putting one of these (Kobra or PK) on my AR-15. Any suggestions between the two for use on an AR?

 

[Fu-man Shoe]

 

[metzgeri]

A little late chiming in here, but I must. I have had a Kobra EKP-8-02 on my SAR-1 since 2003 and have had no problems with it. Five years and thousands of rounds later, I must profess a fondness for this Russian born collimator sight (bought from Doug also). I am, however, finally buying a sun shade for it, since it does wash out when shot into the sun otherwise.

I can admit that (at least mine) does not hold zero after taking it off and reinstalling. But zero is off less than 1/4 MOA and really, what kind of MOA do you expect from an AK? Probably 2 MOA at best for me, even with electronics.

Now, if you fire corrosive ammo, as the Yugo definitely is, cleaning it from an ultimak would also require removing the gas tube. No matter what, you MUST remove the gas tube to clean the gas block properly, irregardless of ammo fired!

And so, is a gas tube mounted sight anywhere as stable as a side-receiver mounted? You be the judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Just me thinkin', nutin' else...

metzgeri

 

[chris in va]

I'm on the hunt for a good side rail mount myself. Looking for something low mounted so I can have some semblance of a cheek weld.

Looked at this one, kinda pricy though.

 

[theken206]

i take it the ultimak would be a good rail to use for an EOTech?

 

[MD_Willington]

I've stared through an ACOG on the Ultimak... worked alright... didn't shoot anything with it though, the guys in the office beside Ultimak in Moscow may have got a little upset if we did.. LOL

Remove the tactical accessories... hey no way, I'm collecting up a Russian set, Russian rifle, Russian red dot.. LOL