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AK supposed to eat anything; same can't be said for HK91/PTR?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by DefiantDad, Jul 30, 2012.

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  1. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    I was reading this

    http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/05/pats_product_reviews_the_ptr91.html

    so, what are your thoughts on the HK91 and/or the PTR91 regarding ammo versatility?

    Should I just throw away the assumption that either of these HK91 platforms will actually feed reliably with a very wide range of .308?

    (I like the highly durable roller delayed blowback action).

    Thanks.
     
  2. dmancornell

    dmancornell Member

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    The PTR91 GI model has the correct fluting and will work with milsurp ammo. Plus it's cheaper to boot.
     
  3. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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  4. GCMkc

    GCMkc Member

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    I have a lower serial AW# PTR-91K (the ones that aren't supposed to like milsurp) and it has shot the following without a single malfunction:

    Wolf
    Silver Bear
    Brown Bear
    Pakistani Milsurp
    Federal
    Remington
    Privi
    Reloads

    PTR now has a lifetime warranty on all factory parts which is a big plus. My rifle looks great and shoots even better. You will NOT be disappointed with a PTR rifle.
     
  5. dmancornell

    dmancornell Member

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    The issue is the fluting is not deep enough on regular PTR's and they won't extract tar-sealed ammo. The GI model is the only one with the correct chamber, none of the other PTR's have it.

    robertrtg sells a wide handguard with an integrated bipod.

    For scopes, he also has claw to rail scope mounts. Or you can buy the superb surplus Hensoldt Z24 4x scope instead.
     
  6. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    As others have said, the fluting should make it much more versatile in ammo choices. I didn't realize that the GI model was the only one that was in "spec."
     
  7. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    Question: If I clean the non-GI versions, after every 50 or 100 rounds, do you think the shallow flutes will be a problem? I know this goes against the whole point of the high reliability of the roller action but, just asking.
     
  8. dmancornell

    dmancornell Member

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    A friend tried some of my German DAG in his newly cleaned PTR91 with the shallow fluting, and it choked within 20 rounds.
     
  9. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    Yikes.

    I am not happy with this discovery...
     
  10. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Dont know about the PTR, but the two HK91's I owned gobbled up anything I put in them without issue.
     
  11. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    I have to really work the budget to get the HK91. My LGS sells a few of them, for maybe the price or 2 or 3 PTRs. I have to give this real consideration.
     
  12. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    HK91's will eat anything.

    And they'll shoot until they're so damn gummed up its ridiculous.

    And the GET so damn gummed up when you shoot them, it's ridiculous.

    Dirtiest damn rifle I've ever laid my hands on.

    LOVE shooting it.

    HATE.. absolutely HATE cleaning it.
     
  13. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    How often do you clean it?
     
  14. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    Cleaning is a breeze with the proper brushes and cleaning rod. Use Simple Green diluted or other water based solvents on a 4" square of t-shirt wrapped around the brush and it cleans right up. No crusty piston to stress over or anything else like that.
     
  15. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    DefiantDad;

    I've shot my HK91, G3, and CETME's all to the point of failure numerous times. Usually I only clean them if I know I'm going to do a bunch of shooting with it. Or they fail WHILE doing a bunch of shooting. :)

    The delayed roller blowback operation results in a massive amount of carbon crud getting thrown back in to the bolt, around the bolt, in to the receiver, and so on. That design is the most heavily fouling one I own, period.

    The failures I've experienced are universally failure to feed. These rifles eject so violently you don't want to be on the receiving end - you MUST give shooters to your right fair warning before shooting to avoid raining burning brass on to them - even if they're 50+ feet away...

    Failures start happening when enough "crud" builds up to slow the forward motion of the bolt carrier group down. This is a combination of residue in the receiver/on the bolt carrier, and to a much lesser degree, the chamber proper.

    Powder Blast (made by break free) is probably THE best solution for these, in the field, as you can take the bolt out, hose it down, hose the chamber down, and the inside of the receiver.

    In a pinch, lacking cleaning supplies, you can also get some motor oil off the dipstick of your truck and liberally coat the bolt with it and the chamber. This will return this type of firearm to functional for awhile, but it will also rapidly accelerate the rate of fouling from that point because oil and carbon crud makes a nasty combination after awhile. (Whatever oil doesn't burn off starts to form a thick sludge).

    They're great rifles, don't get me wrong, but DUDE.. they are horribly dirty to shoot.
     
  16. dmancornell

    dmancornell Member

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    Thanks for the info, I've holding off on cleaning mine until it fails to see how far it will go, 2k rounds so far and it's still going strong.
     
  17. splithoof

    splithoof Member

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    Don't hold your breath. I have seen a number of 91 A2's & A3's go for several years of hard use without cleaning. However, because of their value in today's market, I think it wise to take good care of the bores.
    I have handled a number of PTR 91's, and was not impressed by what I saw at the time as compared to the original HK product. As for ammunition, I have yet to see a real HK 91 or 93 that failed to eat just about anything. Save up for the original, it is worth the wait.
     
  18. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    Trent, thanks very much for the detailed description. I am actually really surprised because based on what I read / hear, the HK91 is supposed to be the most durable, even more than the AK, and should NEVER require cleaning, and eat anything. Designed as the ultimate durable battle rifle for extended field conditions without support or maintenance.

    No?
     
  19. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Everything requires cleaning and maintenance, regardless what it is. I always cleaned my 91's after every outing, just like I do my AR's, AK's, or anything else. Ive never understood the mentality of not cleaning them. Just sounds like lazy to me.

    Even under extended conditions, if youre planing on counting on them for anything, the guns get cleaned and maintained all along. This aint "Call of Duty". :)


    As far as ejection goes, if you want to reload your brass and/or shoot with others nearby, you'll want to get a port buffer. It redirects the brass, and keeps it from getting damaged by impacting the edge of the port.
     
  20. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    I think you misunderstand slightly. The intention was not to DELIBERATELY not clean them, but that when you HAVE NO CHOICE (no cleaning supplies, no time) and have to use whatever .308 ammo you can get, then which is the more dependable .308 SLR?

    HK91? M1A? AR10? FAL?

    Supposed to be HK91.
     
  21. splithoof

    splithoof Member

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    I believe in the above scenario, based on some experience with each, the AR10 will require maintenance sooner. With regular proper care they will all work just fine.
     
  22. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    No, I understood what you were saying. You always have a choice and time at some point, and in certain situations, weapons get priority for care and maintenance.

    Any of those rifles you have listed will run without issue for thousands of rounds without cleaning. Its really not a realistic "test", but they will easily do it. Ive shot a case or two though my 91's, AK's, AR's, M1A's, and FAL's at an outing and they never skipped a beat. My MP5 and MAC have had five times that on occasion, and no problems. All were cleaned at the first reasonable opportunity, some in the field, some when I got home, depending on where and what we were doing.

    If you have a "true" spec gun, any of those in your list shouldnt be a problem. Its the "copies" that usually are the problem.
     
  23. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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  24. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    The reliability of the PTR91 relative to all types of ammo is an X-factor. Mine eats anything. It's newer (2 years old max) with the bull barrel. I was very skeptical when I purchased it, but I had a good friend willing to buy it from me if I didn't like it; so I tried it, and it shoots everything.
     
  25. DefiantDad

    DefiantDad Member

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    Which model is it? Thanks.
     
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