AK47 - please help me define / find one

What's the good place to get these mags ? I don't really like the 30rd mags, they make sense for a combat automatic weapon but are imho an overkill for a semi auto one, my 17 rd mag on G17 seems to last forever (I hate the spray & pray shooting). Also, any particular brand that's reliable ? TIA

 

Find a straight WASR10, and add what you want. You can't beat it for $500(prices are starting to come back to reality"Kinda") and they are solid AKs.

 

Open sights to open sights, I shoot my Sam7 more accurately than my AR. With optics, the AR wins out. If I had to grab one in an emergency, I'd take the Sam7.

 

I just helped my brother-in-law sight his in. Functioned flawlessly right out of the box and we were shooting 1-2" groups at 50 yds with iron sights. Good choice.

 

AR mags or AK?

For AR mags try these.

Lancer AWM mags (*Click*)

https://www.44mag.com/category/223_ar15_magazines

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...30rd-223-5-56-usgi-cs-magazine-prod21225.aspx

http://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56-30rd-aluminum-magazine-8416.html

http://gunmagwarehouse.com/magpul-pmags

For AK mags try here ...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=15&name=AK+type+Rifle+Magazines

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/19...-magazine-ak-47-762x39mm-30-round-steel-matte

http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/Mags-and-Pouches-c164.htm

https://www.classicfirearms.com/20-round-ak-47-magazine-steel-rib-backed-south-korean

http://www.sgammo.com/product/surpl...ion-hungarian-military-surplus-steel-magazine

These are just places to start for AK mags.

There have been some good prices lately on Polish and Croatian 30 rd mags. There are also some Korean 20 rd mags available for range use. I prefer the Hungarian 20 rd 'Tanker' mags, but those have crept up in price where many shooters don't want to pay that much. So for shooting prone or if you're stuck shooting off of a bench the 20 rd mags are a bit better as they won't hit the ground or the bench. So for that the Korean mags are a decent alternative.

Another type of mag that I like are the red Russian Bakelite mags, but again those have crept up in price and command a premium

 

For 20 round aluminum mags you could go to 44mag.com and get straight body 20 rounders from Okay/Surefeed.

You could also get Brownell straight 20 aluminum mags from Brownell's website

Seems like our local Academy has 20 round pmags in stock and they are fairly priced. Might check there for pmags.

 

I had a similar goal of keeping costs down. Very happy with a new PSAK 47 GB2 that's a BLEM, which I had to look up to mean blemished. It was $699. There are 2 or 3 very minor finish blips on the metal that you wouldn't notice unless pointed out. Overall reviews on the generation 2 versions from PSA are very good and I settled on PSA after reading some not so good reviews on some cheaper options. I opted for 7.62 instead of AR since in some states (and countries) you can't hunt medium game with much less than .30 cal which the AK is. Zombie apocalypse need food thing, but without breaking laws? Hah! Plus I just prefer how the round is chambered on the AK: nice big lever on the side. Oh, and the gas tube and block separate from and then merging into the barrel up front. Looks mean.

And then came some additional expenses, over time. Upper hand wooden guard (which I liked) for the popular cheese grater from Khyber -for heat and, yeah, visual fun. And at 6'3" I don't care how it was designed to be shot, simply one inch was necessary on the end of the buttstock in order to best view through my scope (6x). I settled on the Ultimate Arms extension (about $13) because it fits perfectly. (It's not a buttpad, just an extension, because it's hard rubber.) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FEMFIS/ref=cfb_at_prodpg (Just also have to get #8 size 1 1/4" flat topped phillips head screws, or check your AK's dimensions and original screws if yours isn't a PSAK.) The Tuf rail is great and I keep a light/laser on the side (not in the pics), the scope on the top, the rail up high, so I can see the irons under the scope if needed.

 

Seems only right to add one pic: the PSAK 47 GB2 in original form, at the blem price stated. I like it before and after, and the blem version turned out to be a fair deal. (For my body size, only the buttstock extension was really needed.)

 

The days of being able to pick up a decent AK for $600 are over. I would insist on a chrome lined barrel and a properly put together stamped receiver with all the proper dimples in the mag well, from a reputable builder that is going to make sure your gas block is square and everything lines up correctly. I would avoid the Century builds, esp the Romanian ones. The problem is that AKs that meet these requirements are few and far between. Arsenal still does, but the last one of them I saw cost more than the Colt 6920 I had just bought--$1100 or so,

I used to have a lot of love for the AK. But since they have become more expensive than ARs, it kinda takes the fun and a lot of the advantage out of the design. I have standards. I used to have a Romanian WASR, which was okay as a learning experience, I suppose. But not everyone is going to want to go through the effort replacing about everything on the rifle to get it shooting to my standards. Likewise, the 7.62x39 is a capable cartridge inside 100 yards and will bring the mass, velocity, momentum, and energy of a full power .357 Magnum revolver out to 300+ yards. But it is only a rifle cartridge out to about 120 yards. Beyond that distance, the standard 125 gr x39 load dips under 2000 fps. This means that beyond 100 yards, the AK is essentially a SMG, not a rifle. That "whimpy" 5.56 NATO round will carry 2000 fps out to 350 yards or so, which means it kills like a rifle for about 3x the distance of the stubby Russian round. This might not be an issue for your uses, which is fine. But you need to understand the capability and limitations of your gear. And both the AK and the x39 has serious limitations.

 

I think you made an excellent choice. A factory rifle will have quality control and a warranty. Some of the kits from PSA have out of spec parts or don't function properly, and then they have very poor customer service. I've had to replace PSA parts with DPMS or BCM parts.
As far as buying an AK. now you can pretty much only get replica's. and prices are way high. Perhaps the laws will change and new guns will be imported I prefer the Saiga version as it is the only one that has even reasonable accuracy out of many I have owned.
Both the .223 and 7.63x39 are low power as they are designed for full auto fire but both are effective enough. The .223/5.56 NATO has earned a reputation for being more effective and accurate so you are not losing anything there. But I understand people thinking the 7.62 is better and it is too close to argue over.

 

as a 63 year old ex grunt, I can tell you, every chance we got to pick up an AK and use it, we did, the M16s, even the Colts were fair arms, but not as good as far as stopping power....as the current forces have found out in Afghanistan especially the wimpy 5.56 just don't the job when you are shooting at an enemy with layers of clothes...the 7.62 ... .308 does the job.

 

This is the same ridiculous argument that was made with the .30Carbine. Both of which will go through as many layers of fabric as anyone would care to wear in any condition and still have the penetration to exit the other side of the threat (with standard military 62gr. and 110gr. FMJ) at normal combat range (sub-300M, note that shots at ranges greater than 100M are very rare). The 7.62x39mm will do the same and has better barrier blind/light armor penetration, but that doesn't discount the 5.56NATO or .30Carbine. All three will go through most (pretty much any without trauma plates) soft body armor as well (.30Carbine Ball is limited to *only* class IIIA, the others will penetrate full class III with the right projectile, and none will penetrate class IV even with AP projectiles). The notion that any of these wouldn't penetrate thick winter clothing or an automobile skin/auto-glass, as has been recounted so many times before, is BS most likely related to long range shooting during Korean wave attacks or more than likely misses/hits to non-vitals. The 5.56NATO solves these issues by increasing the effective range whilst maintaining the accuracy/ballistics of the .30-06 M2 Cartridge.

Also noteworthy, most consider the 5.56NATO to be the superior round, including the USSR, which adopted the 5.45x39.5mm after seeing its effectiveness to stop enemy combatants with less weight penalty than heftier 7.62mm class projectiles. If the 5.56x45mm was anything resembling "wimpy" NATO wouldn't have abandoned the 7.62x51mm for it, much less continued using it for 50yrs....this is fact.

 

I actually read a lot of the "5.45 vs 5.56 vs 7.62" comparisons on both the US and Russian forums lately, and I think both sides suffer from the "not made here" complex. Which comes in two flavors: "not made here = junk" and "not made here = superior magic." Pretty funny to read, actually, as they often sound as mirror image of each other.
I claim no experience with either of them, just trying to sift through all the BS and extract what seems like genuine info. Tons and tons of BS...

So, here's a few things picked on the Russian language forums that I think sound like they could be true:

- Regardless of the design ballistics, the Western produced ammo generally has superior quality vs the Russian ammo (I assume they mainly mean commercially available, but looks like military grade as well). People on the Russian forums claim to have achieved very similar accuracy in AK-74 vs AR15 using the US made ammo, at least in shorter ranges. Using Russian ammo, the accuracy seems to drop quite a bit, since the consistency is worse round to round. Also, the 5.56 simply has a wider availability of various rounds suited for different applications.

- The Soviet 5.45 cartridge design was optimized for accurate feeding in the fully automated mode, and the lower powder charge seems to have been selected in large part due to the concerns with barrel overheating and overall wear in the sustained automatic mode. I read this reasoning more than once. No idea if this is true but it does make sense.

- To achieve a similar ballistic performance vs 5.56 while having a lesser energy round, the Soviets designed it to be less stable (apparently via creating a void towards the end of the bullet) so that it would start tumbling once it hits the target. The military ammo is also designed with a hard steel core - something that is probably not available for sale here. It's hard to say whether it's better or worse than 5.56 - there's copious amounts of BS and wild speculations and rather suspect personal anecdotes trying to support any claim.

My personal impression after reading all of it was that a military grade 5.56 NATO round when shot from at least a 16" barrel will slightly outperform a military grade 5.45 x 39 round shot from an AK-74. As in, it will hit harder and create a nastier wound channel. But the difference is likely small. And with commercial loads, it's really a crap shoot.

- Some person on some forum, claiming to be a Russian Special forces with Chechnya experience, said that the reason they prefer 7.62 is "because we can shoot". He went on to explain that this round has much less forgiving ballistics, and is more sensitive to the shooter's mistakes, so for an average conscript soldier, the smaller caliber round with a flatter trajectory and less recoil / flinch factor is a better choice. But the special forces often had to use their rifles in forests or against vehicles, in short - distance ambush type situations. For them the superior penetrating ability of 7.62 was more important.

- There was at least one person who claimed that 5.45 was proven to have better penetrating ability when shooting through thick brush than 5.56, but no proof provided.

Anyway, to me this seems to indicate that these arguments over these three calibers and rounds are largely a waste of time.

 

Sorry for one big blob of text, this site seems to have a problem with iPhone browsers.

 

Russians have upgraded to 7N10 for better penetration against body armor, etc because the original round didn't work so well...

M