Alabama - Six arrested in 'militia' weapons raids; nearby school shut

[jrou111]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/26/weapons.raids.ap/index.html

"COLLINSVILLE, Alabama (AP) -- Federal and state agents arrested six men and seized an arsenal of homemade hand grenades and firearms in raids Thursday, including one that forced the shutdown of a school.

The men, members of the self-styled "Alabama Free Militia," had no apparent plans to use the weapons, but the leader was described as a federal fugitive, federal authorities said.

"They just have a beef with the government, and they stockpile munitions," U.S. Attorney Alice Martin said at a news conference in Fort Payne.

Agents recovered 130 hand grenades, a grenade launcher, about 70 hand grenades rigged to be fired from a rifle, a machine gun, a short-barrel shotgun, 2,500 rounds of ammunition, explosives components, stolen fireworks and other items, said Jim Cavanaugh, regional head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives."

 

[Cesiumsponge]

"They just have a beef with the government, and they stockpile munitions," U.S. Attorney Alice Martin said at a news conference in Fort Payne.

Wow, was that their justification? I know people that stockpile ammo because of insane price hikes, I know people that are upset at the government, and I know plenty that fall into both categories. Half the country would be raided if this dope had her way.

I'd like to know what they used to okay the raid, and if they knew the "leader" had a record before or after they arrested everyone.

 

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

"Agents recovered... 2,500 rounds of ammunition..."

Now that just made me sad. I have more rounds than that at home. Friggin' amateurs!

 

[CZ 75 BD]

Tater Salad remains at large.

 

[dmallind]

Sure, me too for now. But do you have grenade launchers and stolen explosives?

I don't. I've got a feeling this is NOT the start of a sweep for those who buy .45ACP by the case to get a cheaper price and save on shipping

 

[tydephan]

If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), these folks sold some home made grenades and possibly IEDs to undercover ATF people.

I would assume that would be enough grounds for a raid.

 

[jcoiii]

"Leader described as a federal fugitive"

Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution? Guess we'll need more info

 

[kellyj00]

sounds legit to me. stolen fireworks and a federal fugitive.

if they were just raiding because they had bought cases of ammo or many pounds of smokeless powder it would upset me.

Homemade grenades? Come on, that's just stupid.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aside from anything else, selling grenades doesn't strike me as common business practice. Acquiring the stuff for IEDs isn't exactly socially acceptable, either. Seems to me the ammo quantity is pretty much irrelevant, compared to the rest of their goodies.

Sounds like the feds did good.

Art

 

[GRIZ22]

Maybe we hear too many horror stories about ATF but you can't argue with this one. ATF's rep would be a lot better if they did more cases like this.

 

[Tommygunn]

Similar thread running in General gun discussion .......

 

[Geister]

Sounds like the feds did good.

Since when is owning a bunch of guns a real crime? React to them once they use them, not before.

Our own federal government has killed a lot more innocent people with their stockpile of weapons then this group ever did.

 

[Autolycus]

It sounds like the feds and the locals did a good deed today.

jrou 111: Please post the entire artile for everyone.

Six arrested in 'militia' weapons raids; nearby school shut
POSTED: 10:09 p.m. EDT, April 26, 2007

COLLINSVILLE, Alabama (AP) -- Federal and state agents arrested six men and seized an arsenal of homemade hand grenades and firearms in raids Thursday, including one that forced the shutdown of a school.

The men, members of the self-styled "Alabama Free Militia," had no apparent plans to use the weapons, but the leader was described as a federal fugitive, federal authorities said.

"They just have a beef with the government, and they stockpile munitions," U.S. Attorney Alice Martin said at a news conference in Fort Payne.

Agents recovered 130 hand grenades, a grenade launcher, about 70 hand grenades rigged to be fired from a rifle, a machine gun, a short-barrel shotgun, 2,500 rounds of ammunition, explosives components, stolen fireworks and other items, said Jim Cavanaugh, regional head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Charged in federal court with conspiracy to make a firearm were Raymond Kirk Dillard, 46; believed to be the group's leader; Adam Lynn Cunningham, 41; Bonnell Hughes, 57; Randall Garrett Cole, 22; and James Ray McElroy, 20. Michael Wayne Bobo, 30, was charged with being a drug user in possession of a firearm.

The six gave no statements as a magistrate read the charges. Five were to be given court-appointed lawyers, while Bobo was to retain his own attorney. Lawyers for the men did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

During the raids, at least five bomb teams were on hand in case explosives were found.

One of the raids in Collinsville, in northeast Alabama, was at a camper and another at a house about a quarter-mile from Collinsville School. School officials said they decided to cancel classes for about 650 students from kindergarten through 12th grade because of the swarm of police vehicles.

"We were going to delay school but because of the possibility of explosives at the residences, we felt it was safer not to have school," DeKalb Sheriff Jimmy Harris said.

Neighbors and friends of Dillard, whom they knew by a different name, said he had been living in a camper on farm property for about two years. The camper was painted with green camouflage design strewn with military items, including canteens, first aid kits, canvas or nylon sacks and military garb.

Federal authorities said he was a federal fugitive wanted in an ATF case out of Mobile from the mid-1990s.

Joanne Gunnin, who owns the property, said that Dillard was known for trying to recruit neighbors to join his militia, and that he expressed hatred for the government and illegal immigrants.

"He told a 16-year-old boy that he had to make up his mind which side he was going to be on, Americans or Mexicans," Gunnin said.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

 

[Geister]

Hah, what a bunch of dumbasses. Most of the Mexicans I know are against illegal immigration. Not that they could do anything about it anyway.

But if the federal government would quit screwing up and pissing as many people off as it does, most of these militia type groups wouldn't even exist to begin with.

 

[Zoogster]

It sounds like the feds and the locals did a good deed today.

Hah, what a bunch of dumbasses.

I do not know anything about this particular group, but I do know that any large group of anything is going to have someone that says something stupid. I think most companies have an employee that would say something stupid if you asked them that does not represent the company. I also know that absolutely anyone the government opposes or goes after who is armed is going to be made out to be a nutcase, preferably a nutcase that is racist or has some other ideology otherwise easy to make people dislike. Part of a cult etc..

This is just the way things work. Sometimes it is true, sometimes it is propoganda. Other times it is half truths and they intentionaly give media coverage to the most absurd crazy guy of the group to help discredit them or gain public support in throwing the book at them.

I grew up in the liberal schools and was made to believe people that stockpiled weapons or ever thought about confronting the government were nutjobs too. Such people were the wacked out individuals that lived in the boonies and had 1 tooth and enjoyed thier farm animals in ways they shouldn't, and other derogatory hillbilly stereotypes.

Then I read the discussions by the founding fathers around the formation of the constitution and learned one of the very reasons for the RKBA is to oppose tyranny if needed. That the founding fathers just came from and were breaking away from and distrusting of governments that became self serving and corrupt and were putting as many safeguards as possible to discourage such a thing from happening in America. Having everyone armed in a way that was capable of opposing the armed forces was just such a safeguard.

However if one was to simply take the perspective given by society, people capable of, or especialy ready to actualy do that very thing are total nutjobs for that reason alone. Tossing in a racist or "cult" or otherwise quickly condemned view in describing them is just icing to insure nobody questions thier treatment or can relate.

So do not always be too quick to accept the media's image about people the government goes after. Take everything with some speculation and don't just accept the facts spoon fed to you by the media. How often are they wrong?

That aside, taking the facts presented as true, they arrested people breaking the law and having illegal weapons that are clearly not acceptable. These guys were ready to do some damage and the feds kept them from doing that damage. If the law says they can only have single shots or pea shooters when confronting the government they should follow the law. Exceeding what they are allowed to have is a big no no and they will do some time for it.

 

[hammer4nc]

Healthy skepticism...

I'm hearing broadcasts about the quantity and type of "IED's" (a term used to conjure up terrorist fears about these guys?). Sounds like they cut open fireworks and poured the contents into containers...something we used to do at age 8 or 10 for fun, now is a fed crime.

Does anyone know if ATF is up for budget review anytime soon?

Lets not forget the David Hudak case in New Mexico from a few years back. (Search THR archives for info). He was accused by ATF of possessing over 2000 anti-tank missiles, valued at $50 million! When ATF's lies were finally exposed, he had legally bought off-spec warheads from a defense contractor, which he used for breaking boulders, road building, etc. ATF had counted each palm-sized factory reject warhead as a missile; and looked up the values in Jane's Defense to arrive at their $50 million dollar figure! Truthful? Not!

Still didn't stop the feds from jailing him without bail for over a year. When it finally came to trial, the jury about laughed the agency out of court, aquitted him of all charges. The man lost everything, including a thriving business. Federal agents even hounded Hudak after the trial, over immigration issues (he was a Canadian).

The critical observer shouldn't draw strong conclusions from the banner headlines foisted by B.A.T.F.E., accompanying arrests.

 

[SIOP]

Originally Posted by jrou111
"Agents recovered... 2,500 rounds of ammunition..."

Now that just made me sad. I have more rounds than that at home. Friggin' amateurs!

Exactly what I thought. 2,500 rounds is an impulse buy at Wal-Mart when you're there to buy diapers.

One of the raids in Collinsville, in northeast Alabama, was at a camper and another at a house about a quarter-mile from Collinsville School. School officials said they decided to cancel classes for about 650 students from kindergarten through 12th grade because of the swarm of police vehicles.

"We were going to delay school but because of the possibility of explosives at the residences, we felt it was safer not to have school," DeKalb Sheriff Jimmy Harris said.

Also makes for much better drama and TV coverage, no?

 

[jrou111]

I think what they were doing was incredibly stupid. I'm sure no one said to the other five "What exactly are we trying to accomplish?"

 

[Picknlittle]

AFAIK, making any kind of explosive devise is illegal and I'm pretty sure stealing them is. The federal fugitive bit gives cause to think Bubba has a history that's catching up to him.

I'm also thinking there is a difference between saying you have a problem with the government or some specific function or branch and forming a militia, making explosives, and stockpiling munitions for the stated purpose of resistance.

These folks hurt gun rights a lot more than anti-gun advocates. In fact they give the antis fuel for the fight.

I think we need to be clear that the gun rights we are advocating are for responsible, law abiding citizens. True?

 

[pcosmar]

Responsible law abiding citizens should have been hanging corrupt officials 70 years ago.
Then we would not have the Unconstitutional "laws" we have today.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Being upset with the government is not only your right but your duty.

As much as I disagree with the current firearm/munition laws; if they broke the law then they deserve to be punished.

 

[Archie]

I'm waiting for further information...

On the one hand, I'm not sure I like anything BATFE does. Historically, they seem to select the more inoffensive people to raid and charge with offensive sounding crimes. So far, other than basic possession of artificially prohibited items, these people haven't done anything illegal.

On the other hand, what is the point of making and storing hand grenades? What is the point of selling (or otherwise providing) hand grenades to someone you don't know?

I'm in favor of repealing or loosening most 'gun laws'. We could repeal NRA 1934, GCA 1968 and the 1994 law that prohibited manufacture and importation of automatic weapons and have no ill effects on the U. S. society. We could repeal all laws regarding possession and carrying firearms and not alter the crime landscape at all.

But I'm not sure these particular people were all that pure, either.

Perhaps more information will surface.

 

[ptmmatssc]

As much as I disagree with the current firearm/munition laws; if they broke the law then they deserve to be punished.

Well , here's the problem . What if YOUR guns (and other THR members) suddenly became illegal and confiscation was enacted . From reading posts here I can say that there would be many "felons and criminals" that will "deserve to be punished" .

People tend to forget that there WERE grenades used by the militia during the revolution . So is it a weapon the "militia " should be able to have today?

 

[pacodelahoya]

I'll bet the Tories were quite happy when the British tried to confiscate the revolutionaries arms also.

 

[spocahp anar]

My Favorite Quote:

[Quote:]"They just have a beef with the government, and they stockpile munitions," U.S. Attorney Alice Martin said at a news conference in Fort Payne.[/Quote]

This was a dumb thing to say. It gives the impression that the raid was for this reason alone.