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Alarmist AP article on guns very alarming!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cougfan, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. cougfan

    cougfan Member

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    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ijpM_MlZkqOYXtwdulL1yxIXolXwD9IFVN7O2


    I read this article, and being an accountant and a real stickler for statistics, I fired up Excel and google and found a wikipedia entry with some easy to use population statistics*. This article says that slightly less than 30% of guns used in crimes were originally purchased in a state other than the one in which they were used and presumably recovered in connection with a crime. So 43,000 out of 145,000 "crime guns" were imported. Shockingly nearly half (48.8%, generously since the article rounded up a couple of times) of those 43,000 imported "crime guns" came from just 10 states. Those 10 states, their populations estimated in 2009 by the US Census Bureau, make up 46.4% of our nations populace. This hardly seems like any sort of major gun running pipeline like the article makes it out to be. People move, guns are stolen and people commit crimes. The only states that are at the top in terms population numbers yet not on the list of top "crime gun" exporters are New York and Illinois, both of which seem to be infamous for higher instances of gun crime, both of which have hugely restrictive gun laws and both of which most likely had a hand in issuing this press release disguised as news.

    Check out http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/home/home.shtml to see the report in its original context and see if your city's mayor is against illegal guns (no brainer, no one wants more gun crime). I just hope paying a think tank a bunch of money to fiddle with FBI statistics isn't going to change public opinion. Hopefully your mayor didn't chip in your $ for this groundbreaking report.

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2010
  2. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    And hardly surprising as well, when concidering the source.
     
  3. cougfan

    cougfan Member

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    The New York Times took this article and ran with it. See their take here http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/politics/27guns.html.

    It seems like the state of New York (and NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who heads the alliance of mayors against illegal guns and most likely paid for this statistical squaredance) should just erect borders and search everyone coming in, or greatly increase the penalties faced by New York residents for buying guns they can't legally own and committing crimes with them. But hey if I had a billion dollars I would try to push my political agenda every way I could too, I just hope more mayors look past the title of this organization and see what it really is into; which is a public relations campaign to make stricter gun laws nationwide. Why can't we all just agree that using a gun to commit a crime (ie. robbery, murder; not owning a handgun) should cost you the hand you used to harm society?
     
  4. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    Statistics can be and are used to prove just about anything.

    Those mayors probably went through land area, population, ethnic groups, gender and religious affiliations until they hit upon something that could be construed to "prove" their point.
     
  5. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Member

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    50% of 'crime guns' come from just 10 states? I'd be willing to bet that 50% of those same 'crime guns' were used in just 2 states: New York and Illinois. Of course, that couldn't possibly indicate that those two states have a problem; naturally, it's easier to blame your trouble on the other guy.

    "All of our criminals are really well behaved, honest. If other states would just stop selling them guns, I'm sure they'd see the error of their ways and go on to become healthy, productive members of society."

    R
     
  6. rattletrap1970

    rattletrap1970 Member

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    I thought it interesting that several of the States listed have ridiculous gun laws as it is, and apparently they don't help... Imagine that.. <Sarcasm LOL
     
  7. herkyguy

    herkyguy Member

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    nice work by COUGFAN delving into the numbers. That's how we best disprove these myths...
     
  8. merlinfire

    merlinfire Member

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    I LOL'ed. Well played sir.
     
  9. VinnAY

    VinnAY Member

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    89% of all stats are made up.
     
  10. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Remember the "backward masking" crisis in the 1980s, trumpeted by hysterical televangelists? This is "backward masking" for anti-gunners. It will amount to as much.

    They're going to keep flailing and lashing out, but like Holocaust deniers, they've permanently marginalized themselves with their dishonesty and more importantly, the consistent failure of EVERY dire prediction of "blood in the streets".
     
  11. USMC - Retired

    USMC - Retired Member

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    Good work cougfan!

    I have an interview with a local Fox News affiliate this morning concerning this very report and GCO's take on it. I will definately make sure to point out the info you have brought to light.

    Thanks!
     
  12. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    ...and 93 percent of the people know that.
     
  13. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Good work crunching the numbers.

    This is the same old song and dance. Just as the corrupt and essentially non-functional Mexican government blames US gun laws for its problems, the corrupt mayors the urban wastes blame their problems on gun laws of other states.
     
  14. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    I, for one, am shocked the group is not in favor of amnesty for these "illegal guns". They are just doing the jobs that legal guns don't or won't do.
     
  15. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    Mayors against illegal guns and Bloomberg is all you have to know---to where a flawed cooked up piece is going to lead you by the nose.

    Move along---nothing to see here.
     
  16. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Can anyone really take these guys seriously?
     
  17. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    If you analyze the statistics to read "At one time during their lifetime, 21 070 (that is 49% of the 43,000 number listed above) guns from 10 of some our heavily populated states (averaging about 2107 apiece for those 10 states) ended up in crimes in other states than they were originally sold in." I wonder how many were LEGALLY moved from one state to another, along with the original or subsequent owners. I wonder how many were STOLEN in one state and illegally brought to another (should my state of Ohio be punished if crooks from NYC come here and burglarize guns for sale on NYC streets? I think not!). If my math is correct, 2107 guns for each of the averaged 10 states mentioned is about 1.5% of the total guns used in crimes. What is the issue? That 10 populated states, most of which have lesser gun restrictions that New York or California contribute about 15% of the TOTAL gun used in crimes? Since we have 50 states, and each could average 2%, I'd say that 10 gun-lenient states only contributing 15% total is pretty good. The report isn't telling us how many INDIGINOUSLY sold guns were used in each state's crimes, i.e. how many New York guns were used in NY crimes. If we were not inclined to THINK about such smears and claims, the gun haters could mess with us. It just confirms how desperate they are.
     
  18. JR47

    JR47 Member

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    The true problem is in the fact that many people haven't the time, or the ambition, to actually check the math on these "reports". They take them at face value.

    What is sorely lacking is a reference value for how long those guns were "in the system", reported lost or stolen, sold, or the owners moved INTO the state requesting the trace. A gun bought in 1979, for example, could have come into the state in question in 1980, been stolen in 2010, and used in a crime. The trace data ends at the initial sales point, in 1979.

    This lack of time reference throws the entire statistic into disarray.
     
  19. lonegunman

    lonegunman Member

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    I wish these coke snorting democrats would go away. All of their dope, herion, coke, meth and crack crosses state lines. If they would stop abusing drugs 24/7/365 the demand would drop and the trafficking would slow about 90%.

    The former president of Mexico once said, they would not have a smuggling problem if the millions of dope fiends in America would take a break from their lust for drugs.
     
  20. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    A wise man once said, "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
     
  21. MikeNice

    MikeNice Member

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    This is typical for anti-gun nuts.

    "It isn't our fault. It isn't even the criminal's fault. It is those blood thirsty gun owners. They are destroying our fine citys."

    They seem to ignore the fact that when the law abiding citizens are armed and can fight back the crime rates fall.

    According to the site Gun Facts,
    also

    If these municipalities want to be as safe as the ten states they list, they should ease their own restrictions.
     
  22. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

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  23. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    That is 41% true.
     
  24. MikeNice

    MikeNice Member

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    I just wanted to toss a quote from a Mafia hitman in to the thread. To me it shows why these people are fighting against logic.

     
  25. Old krow

    Old krow Member

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    Statistics is a sticky subject.

    My personal favorite is "50% of all marriages end in divorce, the other 50%, well, they end in death." It makes it sounds really bad, but it's the truth.

    If we wanted to mess with those guys, then we should go on the offensive and we should be cranking out studies and show them just how much the guns do help.

    True. Statisticians generally post all of their info with their reports so that they can't be disputed. Other statisticians check them, the rest of us don't.
     
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