Alaska Trip

[MedWheeler]

RavenTai writes:

They will put piece of paper inside the bag and a gun tag outside.

This shouldn't happen. There isn't supposed to be anything on the outside of the bag to indicate there is a firearm within. Just inside the bag should be the "unloaded firearm" tag. It's there for TSA to see if they open the bag. The bag can be locked with a "TSA lock" if desired, but the container within it holding the firearm must be locked with a mechanism to which only you have the key or combination.

I had a ticket agent that wanted me to cycle the action was kinda weird in the middle of an airport but was no issue.

Same here. She asked me to show her an empty chamber. It was a handgun, and a rather small one at that, so discretion was easy.

They always tell me to follow the bag to TSA as they may want to open the case also but TSA has never wanted to. they x-ray it, see the gun they were already expecting and move on.

I've never been asked to "follow the bag", but have been asked for a phone number at which I can be reached while still within the terminal. I doubt providing one is required, but I always did. It was never needed.

 

[denton]

I live in Utah, and had the pleasure of a fishing trip to Alaska. My 41 Mag snubby made the flight with me, no problems.

You can legally ship your firearm from yourself to yourself. I would suggest that you pick the package up at the parcel service office rather than having it sent to your hotel or home.

If you put a firearm in checked baggage, lock it in its case and chain the case to the internal structure of your suitcase. That discourages theft.

Of course, the firearm must not be loaded.

Ammunition in checked baggage must be either in its original factory packaging, or in a box with dividers that separate the rounds from each other.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Well, I won't comment much on the issue of flying with guns, other than to say, I moved my entire collection to AK over the course of 5-6 northbound flights on AK Air and United with never an issue.

Open carry, while legal, is not common in the cities. In the 12 years I've lived here, I've seen 5 people carrying open, and one of those was at a restaurant near a popular fishing area down on the Kenai peninsula. However, I suspect MANY people in Anchorage are carrying concealed.

As for bears...a firearm is obviously a good option, but not a necessity. Your best protection from bears is your brain. Learn bear safety practices and use them. I didn't carry a gun in the woods until the last 3-4 years.

On a related note, if you need local information on what to do, where to go, etc., etc., feel free to hit me up. I love Alaska, and I love sharing it with outsiders.

 

[Rio Laxas]

You can legally ship your firearm from yourself to yourself. I would suggest that you pick the package up at the parcel service office rather than having it sent to your hotel or home.

This is partially true for an unlicensed person. You can ship a long gun from yourself to yourself via USPS. It is technically legal to ship a handgun from yourself to yourself via contract carrier, as long as you notify them in writing first that you will be doing so first as required by 18 USC 922(e). Unfortunately, UPS, FedEx, and DHL all prohibit you from doing so by their internal policies. So as a practical matter, that is not an option.

Interesting about the FFL angle. I am an 03 C&R, and my Colt New Service in .45LC is C&R. I'll have to confirm, but would that cover the Fedex FFL rule?

That is an interesting question.

FedEx has this to say:

Firearms
A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States
Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors;
law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and
law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political
subdivisions thereof; or
2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed
importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult
Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your
shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments
are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot
ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express
Drop Box.
D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to
FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm.
The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the
package contains a firearm.
E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government
regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance

Since you are a licensed collector and you are on both ends of the shipment, they may allow you to do it. You would also not be required to notify them in writing, since 18 USC 922(e) only requires that when it is going to someone other than a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector. You are required to notify them by the terms of their service guide, which would matter primarily for insurance purposes. In other words, if you fail to notify them and it is lost or damaged, then you may not receive the insurance claim.

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

 

[Pheasant Plucker]

I just returned my Sig 320 to the company via Fed-ex and they returned it directly to me, signature required. If Fed-ex has that policy why can't you ship it to yourself in Ak. to be picked up at the shipping office then again returned to you in Pa. on your return trip.
I'm sure Sig is a FFl licencee but returning the pistol to me didn't require me to go thru a FFL. Shouldn't the same rules apply?

 

[Frank Ettin]

....I'm sure Sig is a FFl licencee but returning the pistol to me didn't require me to go thru a FFL. Shouldn't the same rules apply?

Yes, SIG is an FFL, and the same rules apply. Both FedEx and UPS require an FFL on one end.

So you as a non-licensee can ship to an FFL. And an FFL can ship to you, a non-licensee, if otherwise legal, i. e., an FFL dealer can't ship a purchase directly to you, but an FFL manufacturer or FFL gunsmith can return your gun, that you had sent to them for service, repair, or modification, directly to you (Cliff Notes version).

 

[Havok7416]

You can not ship a handgun to yourself by FedEx or UPS, as it is against their policies to allow you to ship a firearm to anyone other than an FFL. If you were do so anyway and you did not notify them in writing, you would run afoul of 18 USC 922(e). If you notify them in writing, they will refuse the shipment.

Nonsense. I've shipped out numerous guns for repair to a manufacturer (FFL) using both FedEx and UPS. They always get shipped back to my doorstep, signature required, but I'm certainly not an FFL. And I have never been asked what's in the box by either - although I've always offered the information.

An interesting side note, in 2006 a UPS DC-8 declared an emergency while on approach to Philly. As the plane landed the tower notfied the crew that they could see flames coming through the aft fuselage, so the crew jumped out while the crash crews went to work on the plane. When they finally put the fire out, UPS started collecting up the remains of the boxes (they have a strange obsession with what they call service failures). Many of the boxes were damaged and in them they found all kinds of illegal items including a large quantity of drugs and a very dead snake!

Things go through the system all the time that aren't supposed to, but the last thing a shipper will be checking is whether the address on the package is actually an FFL.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Nonsense. I've shipped out numerous guns for repair to a manufacturer (FFL) using both FedEx and UPS. They always get shipped back to my doorstep, signature required, but I'm certainly not an FFL. And I have never been asked what's in the box by either - although I've always offered the information.....

Hogwash. See the preceding post.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Nonsense. I've shipped out numerous guns for repair to a manufacturer (FFL) using both FedEx and UPS. They always get shipped back to my doorstep, signature required, but I'm certainly not an FFL. .....

Note that the issue was a non-licensee shipping a handgun to himself. That is different from a non-licensee shipping a handgun to an FFL for repair, service, or modification, and then receiving the gun back from the FFL.

Here are the UPS rules (emphasis added):

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

Here are the FedEx rules (emphasis added):

....Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
   
   
2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

Note that in the case of the OP he has an 03 FFL (and is therefore a licensed collector). So it's possible that because of his unique circumstances UPS or FedEx might accept a C&R handgun from him to be shipped to himself.

 

[Havok7416]

Frank, they can't require what they don't ask for.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Frank, they can't require what they don't ask for.

Does that mean anything in English?

Here's how it works. The tariffs (rules) of a common carrier are part of the contract between the shipper and the carrier. If the shipper doesn't abide by the terms of the contract, e. g., ships a prohibited item or ships it to someone the rule say the carrier won't deliver, the carrier is off the hook for any loss or damage to the parcel.

Also, at THR we abide by the law and live up to our contracts. If you're the type who doesn't feel obliged to honor his contracts, just keep that bit of information to yourself. We're not interested.

 

[Havok7416]

Does that mean anything in English?

Here's how it works. The tariffs (rules) of a common carrier are part of the contract between the shipper and the carrier. If the shipper doesn't abide by the terms of the contract, e. g., ships a prohibited item or ships it to someone the rule say the carrier won't deliver, the carrier is off the hook for any loss or damage to the parcel.

Also, at THR we abide by the law and live up to our contracts. If you're the type who doesn't feel obliged to honor his contracts, just keep that bit of information to yourself. We're not interested.

You can be as ornery as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that if a question is not asked by the carrier when a box comes across their counter, then they have no way of knowing what's inside short of opening it up. If the carrier is indeed off the hook for NOT asking (and I'll go ahead and take.you at your word on that), then why on earth would they ever ask? That would seem to amount to a free pass.

I've been here at THR quite awhile as you're no doubt aware. Read the rest of my posts in this thread and remind me where I indicated I don't follow the law or where I recommend that anyone shouldn't.

To addess the OP's issue, when I want to travel with my guns, I make sure I can do so (as best as possible) in the same vehicle I am travelling in. It hasn't been a hassle or failed me yet.

 

[Frank Ettin]

You can be as ornery as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that if a question is not asked by the carrier when a box comes across their counter, ....

Sigh!

First, if you bothered to follow the links to the UPS and FedEx rules you'd have seen that UPS requires that:

When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.

and FedEx requires:

Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm.

Also, I've shipped quite a number of guns to gunsmiths for work using FedEx. I've always followed the rules and notified the counter person that I was shipping a gun. And the counter person has always confirmed that I was shipping the gun to an FFL.

And yes, determined ignorance does make be ornery.

 

[Pheasant Plucker]

Yes, SIG is an FFL, and the same rules apply. Both FedEx and UPS require an FFL on one end.

So you as a non-licensee can ship to an FFL. And an FFL can ship to you, a non-licensee, if otherwise legal, i. e., an FFL dealer can't ship a purchase directly to you, but an FFL manufacturer or FFL gunsmith can return your gun, that you had sent to them for service, repair, or modification, directly to you (Cliff Notes version).

Frank, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'd often wondered how that worked, now I know.

 

[Rio Laxas]

Nonsense. I've shipped out numerous guns for repair to a manufacturer (FFL) using both FedEx and UPS. They always get shipped back to my doorstep, signature required, but I'm certainly not an FFL. And I have never been asked what's in the box by either - although I've always offered the information..

You obviously didn't understand my statement and are talking about something unrelated. I stand by what I said. If you ship a handgun to yourself and you are not an FFL, then you are required by federal law (not carrier rules) to notify the carrier in writing. Not doing so is a violation of federal law and is a crime. If you notify UPS or FedEx in writing, then they will most likely refuse the shipment since it goes against their published policies. This has nothing to do with you shipping a firearm to a manufacturer and them returning it to you.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...If you ship a handgun to yourself and you are not an FFL, then you are required by federal law (not carrier rules) to notify the carrier in writing. Not doing so is a violation of federal law and is a crime....

And just to be clear, that is correct. See 18 USC 922(e), emphasis added:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

 

[BSA1]

So what are the rules about having a FFL holder mail (USPS) your handgun to a address in Alaska? Does the recipient have to be a FFL holder also?

 

[Rio Laxas]

So what are the rules about having a FFL holder mail (USPS) your handgun to a address in Alaska? Does the recipient have to be a FFL holder also?

In order to mail a handgun, the sender and receiver would both have to be an FFL and a "dealer." . A C&R FFL does not appear to qualify as a "dealer" based on the text of the postal code. Additionally, the receiving FFL would only be able to transfer the handgun to an Alaska resident.

The issue of whether or not a C&R FFL can mail C&R handguns is a bit confusing, and even high ranking employees of the USPS will often give answers in conflict with the postal code. A careful reading of the postal code, however, indicates that a C&R FFL can only mail a handgun that also meets the definition of an antique firearm because they are not a "dealer".

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm#ep350890

432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

431.3 Antique Firearm
Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

a. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
b. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade

432.23 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts

432.24
A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer, or importer need not file the affidavit under 432.22, but must file with the Postmaster a statement on PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and components of handguns under 432.2d, are being mailed in customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers, or importers of firearms. Registered Mail service is recommended.

431.5 Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)

Federal Firearms licenses are issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968, and are defined as follows:

a. Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms means a manufacturer, dealer, or importer duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) under Chapter 44, Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.).
b. Curio and relic collector means an individual licensed by ATF to transfer or receive only those firearms defined as curios or relics by ATF under Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 478.11.

 

[jonnyc]

In any case, I already have a Fedex account, so that would be my carrier of choice.

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

If youd like, pm me, i can borrow you something for a deposit. Got a good selection to keep you bear safe. Also if you have questions on where to go to get away from tourist traps ask away! I love sharing this state with newcomers and i enjoy being an amateur guide. Carrying firearms up here is a very casual thing and noone will likely give you any guff.

 

[MCMXI]

How about a Mossberg Shockwave? It's entered on a 4473 as Other Firearm so could a non FFL mail one across state lines to themselves using USPS?

 

[Frank Ettin]

How about a Mossberg Shockwave? It's entered on a 4473 as Other Firearm so could a non FFL mail one across state lines to themselves using USPS?

No. Under USPS regulations, only a gun that is a rifle or a shotgun is mailable by a non-licensee. See 432.3.

See 431.4 for the applicable definition of rifles and shotguns.

 

[MistWolf]

...we abide by the law and live up to our contracts...

Yes. Without question. It's the honorable thing to do and keeps life simple.

 

[Warp]

Robert, that's interesting because coming back from Seattle the TSA officer made me remove my loaded magazines from the locked case containing the gun and had me put them in a separate pocket in the suitcase. That was the only ammo I was carrying.

Regulations allow ammo in the same locked case as the gun. I always put a loaded mag in the small locked hard sided container with my handgun, it has never been an issue with TSA. I fly a lot, have checked a handgun at a couple dozen different airports, including Anchorage. Seattle they transferred my checked bags though didn't have to deal with TSA for the connecting flight.

If you do your research ahead of time, you'll probably know the regs better than 99% of airline employees and better than some TSA employees.



(and I don't even cover the open end of the magazine that's in there, I bring a mag pouch and put a magazine or two in the pouch loose in the luggage separate from the locked container, many dozens of times it hasn't been a issue, FWIW)

 

[tark]

Frank, you get a bit ornery at times, but I know why. I lived in the Bay Area for fifteen years myself. Beautiful place, beautiful weather, and full of stupid, anti-gun people. It is enough to make anybody ornery!. I was thinking about moving back.....when the antis closed Chabot Regional Park's shooting range. Forget it. Now I feel ornery..