All Around Magnum Powder, 296 vs AA4100

[sisyphus]

I am getting the last pieces together to set up my new press and get to making ammo. My intention from the start was to keep it simple and use one powder for 357/41/44 magnum and one powder for 30-06 and 375 Ruger.

Initially I was looking at Winchester 296 and Hodgdon H110 because numbers. Then I reached out to you guys and you nudged me toward Alliant 2400. Here's the problem, there isn't any 2400 out there right now.

So for my pistol loading purposes, I can lay hands on Winchester 296 and Accurate 4100 right now. 296 will work for everything I want to do, but isn't very flexible and has a narrow load window. 4100 is a little more flexible, but there isn't as much data for it on the web as you can find for H110/296.

If the 4100 allows me to get within spitting distance of 296 for hot loads, and also gives me the ability to load milder if I want, that would be ideal. I'll be loading hard cast RNFP at 158gr/357, 215gr/41 and 240gr/44 and shooting them in both revolvers and lever guns. Outside the data published at Western Powder's website there isn't a lot of 4100 info out there, so I was hoping someone would read this who had some hands on with 4100 or AA9 which is kind of close to 4100. I appreciate it guys, thank you.

 

[Ru4real]

I’ve loaded H110 / W296 and AA#9 in both 357 and 45 Colt. Pressure is needed for both powders to work well, I’ve found.

I prefer H110 / W296 because velocity spreads and group sizes have always been a little better, on average, compared to AA#9.

However, I wouldn’t hesitate to use AA#9 if I didn’t have magnum primers. I normally use magnum primers with both powders but AA#9 can work with non-magnum primers. H110 / W296 always was a failure in my testing using non-magnum primers.

 

[noylj]

In an ideal world, I would recommend 2400, just for the accuracy and the non-fussy nature of the powder.
I would look at AA9 or AA4100 or Enforcer.
However, if I had 296/H110 in hand, might as well buy it.

 

[Blue68f100]

For full house mag loads W296/H110 is hard to beat. 2400 is also good and down loadable. I use a lot of W296 due to it's my favorite powder for my 458 SOCOM. When I want a soft shooting plinking load I use WST.

 

[.38 Special]

Just for what it is worth, I've come to dislike H110. It is a great powder for maximum loads in Magnum handgun cartridges, but as far as I am concerned that is it's only use. It isn't any good at all for lower pressures, and the little kernels bind up most of my powder measures. I have turned to 2400 for almost all Magnum revolver cartridges and prefer it in just about every way.

 

[sisyphus]

that's exactly why I'm looking at buying the 4100

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

I too, have come to prefer 2400 in my magnum revolver loads. In it's absence my next choice would be Alliant's 300MP.
I don't know if that powder is available to you, but I think it's worth a look.

 

[AJC1]

I too, have come to prefer 2400 in my magnum revolver loads. In it's absence my next choice would be Alliant's 300MP.
I don't know if that powder is available to you, but I think it's worth a look.

I am very curious about 300mp and any experience with it. Shows much higher velosity than h110 and I've read that inital claims were very ambitious

 

[sevt_chevelle]

I believe 4100 is the same thing as Enforcer. I tried enforcer in my 44 mag, a SAA, compared to 110 and 2400, I didn't care for it. The recoil impulse was harsher and snappier. 2400 was a much nicer feeling recoil with better accuracy, but that could have been just me not enjoy those Enforcers loads.
There is also a newish Accurate powder AA 11 FS.

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

I am very curious about 300mp and any experience with it. Shows much higher velosity than h110 and I've read that inital claims were very ambitious

IME, it doesn't give any better velocity than H110 or 2400. My most accurate .357 125 gr bullet load is with 300MP. You wouldn't believe the fireball from a 4" barrel. 300MP is better suited for a longer barrel in my opinion. Magnum primer is not required.

 

[AJC1]

IME, it doesn't give any better velocity than H110 or 2400. My most accurate .357 125 gr bullet load is with 300MP. You wouldn't believe the fireball from a 4" barrel. 300MP is better suited for a longer barrel in my opinion. Magnum primer is not required.

I was planning to use it in a carbine if I can ever find any. I figured I would work up 2400 h110 and 300mp to compare. Not seeing any immediate opportunity....

 

[edwardware]

296 will work for everything I want to do, but isn't very flexible and has a narrow load window. 4100 is a little more flexible, but there isn't as much data for it on the web as you can find for H110/296.

In your case, I would value that flexibility. No doubt that anti-armor level loads are a hoot, but it's nice to be able to turn them down too. You can add W296 later if you yearn for the last few fps.

Accurate's description of 4100 says it works in your calibers, so I'm certain their online databook has data.

 

[JimKirk]

AA#4100 and Enforcer are the same powder .... So if you find data .... Both are fairly close to AA #9 in burn speed ...

 

[BBarn]

Of the three powders; H110/W296 (same), A#9, and A4100/Enforcer (same), I'd go with the last if you want a bit more flexibility. I've used all three and consider A4100/Enforcer a bit more consistent when reduced slightly.

If you don't mind less powerful loads, something a little faster might work even better. Power Pistol works very well in Magnums if you're not seeking maximum possible velocities.

 

[cfullgraf]

Just for what it is worth, I've come to dislike H110. It is a great powder for maximum loads in Magnum handgun cartridges, but as far as I am concerned that is it's only use. It isn't any good at all for lower pressures, and the little kernels bind up most of my powder measures. I have turned to 2400 for almost all Magnum revolver cartridges and prefer it in just about every way.

I'm the opposite, W296/H110 is so good for full power magnum loads, it is hard for me to use anything else in that service. When I want a lower power load, I'll use another powder such as Unique, Blue Dot, or Accurate #5 that is appropriate for the task.

I always have W296, Unique, and some other powders in inventory for a variety of different cartridges so I have options without going to the store.

While I have not used 2400 since the 1980's, I could never match the performance of my W296 loads and there was always alot of unburned 2400 spilling out of the chambers after firing. Maybe Alliant has tweaked the 2400 formula over the years but I'm not interested in trying it again at this time.

I have never tried Accurate 4100 so I cannot comment there.

 

[.38 Special]

I still turn to H110 when looking for top-end loads. I just don't do that much anymore, prefering even my Magnum loads to run in the middle of that range.

As to unburned kernels of 2400, I've been hearing about them for decades but never really have seen them in any significant quantity. I probably just don't care enough to look for them!

 

[noylj]

If you really think that 50-100fps is significant, then I guess 296/H110 is the way to go.
If you think that accuracy is more important, you might want to check 2400 again.
Never noticed unburned powder with 2400, but that is just me, I guess.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

W296/H110 is so good for full power magnum loads, it is hard for me to use anything else in that service. When I want a lower power load, I'll use another powder such as Unique, Blue Dot, or Accurate #5 that is appropriate for the task.

^^^This^^^
I have not found any accuracy advantage with 2400 over H110. Buying a few pounds of Unique and a few pounds of H110 isn't very complicated.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm the opposite, W296/H110 is so good for full power magnum loads, it is hard for me to use anything else in that service. When I want a lower power load, I'll use another powder such as Unique, Blue Dot, or Accurate #5 that is appropriate for the task.

I always have W296, Unique, and some other powders in inventory for a variety of different cartridges so I have options without going to the store.

^^^Same here. I still have the first jug of 2400 I ever bought. Just don't use it. I too was told it was "the best all around magnum powder". While it was able to be downloaded, it never gave me the velocities and accuracy of H110/W296 nor did it give me the accuracy of faster burning powders at the lower velocities. I found IMR4227 outshone it in .44 mag when wanting something with just a little less "bang" than H110/W296.

One of the most prevalent threads on reloading forums is the question, "what ONE powder works best for all applications?". The answer? No ONE powder works the best for all applications. Want the best all around performance? Buy more than one powder.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you really think that 50-100fps is significant, then I guess 296/H110 is the way to go.
If you think that accuracy is more important, you might want to check 2400 again.
Never noticed unburned powder with 2400, but that is just me, I guess.

Yup, accuracy is important, that is why I use W296/H110. I could never match the performance I get with W296/H110 when using 2400. There are many factors that go into improved performance than just velocity.

I'm just commenting on my experience, others may have different experiences. It's kind of like a Ford vs Chevy vs Chrysler debate, everyone has different likes and dislikes.

 

[Charlie98]

^^^This^^^
I have not found any accuracy advantage with 2400 over H110. Buying a pound of few pounds of Unique and a few pounds of H110 isn't very complicated.

I've found my loads with H110/W296 to be extremely accurate... but I don't shoot a lot of full-house loads anymore. Besides IMR4227, I like H110 in my .41 Marlin... where the longer barrel makes use of the slower powders.

I tried 2400 many moons ago because everyone gushed about it... I didn't find it to be that good. I recently picked up 3# of it... mostly to use in the .45-70, but to test drive it, again, in the .41's. So far I've not found it to be any better than anything else, and often worse. I've also found IMR4198 to be a better all-around powder in the .45-70 than 2400... so now I'm stuck with 2+ pounds of this stuff. Oh, well.

 

[noylj]

I only report my findings. In .357 Mag, .44 Rem Mag, and .45 Win Mag, 2400 is more accurate in my guns than 296/H110, and that is how I judge a powder.
If your guns prefer 296/H110, then use that powder.
There is no argument, just reported what I have found.
Lost my .357 Mag and .44 Mag data during one of several moves (may still be in storage somewhere).
Do have my .45 Win Mag load data:
185gn FPJ: 2400 1.17-1.86" at 25 yards. 296/H110 2.11-3.85" at 25 yards.
185gn JHP: 2400 1.05-2.03" at 25 yards. 296/H110 2.27-3.49" at 25 yards.
200gn JFP: 2400 1.86-2.61". 296/H110 1.21-9.36"
200gn JSWC: 2400 1.61-1.74". 296/H110 1.79-9.55"
230gn FMJ: 2400 1.60-2.52". 296/H110 1.97-4.24"
240gn JHC: 2400 1.77-3.67". 296-H110 1.52-5.74"

Oh, I do have a little .357 load data from my Smolt:
150gn FMJ: 2400 1.06-2.03". 296/H110 1.66-1.94"
Note: with a .357 Mag conversion kit in my Grizzly, 296/H110 gave me 2.75-3.81" with the 150gn FMJ, and 2400 gave me 2.94-4.69"

 

[sisyphus]

problem solved, I got my hands on a 4# jug of 2400 today. Thank you for all the input guys, much appeciated.

 

[MEHavey]

H110.... the little kernels bind up most of my powder measures.

I'm having a hard time with that statement. As a small-grain spherical powder, it measures like water -- easily & repeatedly.

4100, however, is all but extremely-fine dust.
If you like powder leakage.....


.

 

[.38 Special]

I'm having a hard time with that statement. As a small-grain spherical powder, it measures like water -- easily & repeatedly.

The experience of one man does not necessarily invalidate the experience of another.