All around survival knife, whats your pick?

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Ok whats better. The Mora clipper with the carbon steel blade or the stainless sandvik blade.
 
Carbon blade, I have actually lathered-up and shaved with one as a test. Although because you live in such a high-humidity zone, you may need to consider the stainless Mora. Mora knives are great, I have a couple of them and would stake my life on them, but they just aren't as pretty as a better made knife. This may bother you if you want a knife for "show" as well.

That Kizlar blade looks like a copycat of the Fallkniven F1 blade. Fallkniven makes good knives, they supply the Swedish military and have a good 'rep' across the world.
 
So carbon has better edge holding properties than stainless?

I could keep the blade free of corrosion, would carbon be the better (sharper longer, stronger) choice?

How does the fallkniven f1 stack up to the mora clipper?
 
The rule of thumb is that carbon makes a better working knife blade than "stainless". That rule get's bent a lot when high tech rust resistant steels start getting put up against various carbon tool steels.

Kizlyar makes a good option in eastern europe since they should be available at prices well below the imported American products. The claims are that they are buying steel from France, Austria and Sweden depending upon the quality and price.
 
I have several Carbon Clippers and one Stainless. The Carbon steel models are superior to the stainless. The stainless ones are not bad, they just are not as good as the carbon.

Don't worry about the humidity causing rust. I've never had a problem with any of mine rusting so long as I clean and dry the blade after use. One lives in my truck, and anyone who has been to Tallahassee in the summertime can tell you, it is very humid here.

If you get a Mora, you will need to do two things. First, you will need to flatten the spine, then flatten the edges. Let me know if you don't know how to do this and I'll walk you through it. It is not hard.

The Fallkniven brand is far superior to the Moras by repute (I don't have one yet.) If you have the money to get a Fallkniven, I suggest getting it.
 
If it's of any help, I've been through this decision recently. I've been trying to find that 'do-all' camp/pack blade for a good while, though with some big budget restrictions. I have not been satisfied with anything like the Ka-Bar blade style, so I've decided to get a mora as a good fixed blade and then a small ace/hatchet to fill in for heavier roles, rather that try to force one blade to be a 'jack of all trades'. (It's looking like the axe will be a 16" Wetterling.)

I've not ever used a mora, so I ordered a few from ragweed forge. They're hard to resist when you combine their low price and good reputation. I'm anxious to get them and put them through their paces.

Skofnung, how do you flatten the spine/edges, and what's the benefit from it? I'd certainly like to get the most out of the blades.
 
Skofnung, how do you flatten the spine/edges, and what's the benefit from it? I'd certainly like to get the most out of the blades.

As far as I can tell, Mora knives are stamped as opposed to forged. Often (though not always) the spine will be left in the rough. This plays havoc on your thumb if you are whittling or doing fine work.

What I do is clamp a Bastard file in a vise and "reverse drawfile" she spine. You just hold the knife in your right hand, edge up, perpendicular to the file. Put the spine on the file and pull straight back towards yourself using moderate pressure. You should feel the file cutting the metal. Repeat this as many times as it takes to flatten the spine.

Once you have the spine roughly flat, do the same thing with a coarse grit stone (diamond, India, or sandpaper) to finish it up. You could use this from the start, but it would take longer to do.

To flatten the edges, just lay the bevel on a flat, coarse stone and sharpen away. At the factory, they use big grinding wheels, so the bevel is actually slightly hollow ground. You will see this as you progress, the back of the bevel and the edge will "come together" in the middle. That is, the last part of the edge to get flat will be the middle of the bevel.

The advantage of making the spine flat is threefold: it is easier on your thumb, it makes it easier to baton, and it makes a dandy firesteel striker. Plus, it just looks better.

Making the edges flat will help the blade cut better. It is well worth the effort.

Oh yhea, one thing I like to do is "patina" the blade before making the edges flat (after making the spine flat.) I just soak the blade in a olive jar full of warm vinegar for a few hours, then wash. This is not necessary, but it makes the blade look a little better (dark)... as if a Mora could look good :uhoh:

Hope that helps. Sorry for the hijack.
 
Your info is very welcome. I guess I need a course in blade anatomy because I am not 100% sure what you're talking about. The spine is the "top" of the knife blade if the cutting edge is the bottom, I think thats right. The edge are the flats that would make the "front" and "back" of the blade if the tip is pointing up and the cutting edge is oriented so that it faces the left or right. Is that correct?

Flattening the edge takes away the angle from the cutting edge to the flats and leaves only one angle that is from the cutting edge to the spine. Is that the idea? I guess that would make it easier to sharpen.

Now I need to learn how to effectively sharpen.

I don't mean to take this thread onto a detour, but can anyone reccomend any good books on knife maintinance and sharpening?
 
There are 3 kinds of mora blade 1 stainless and 2 carbon. One of the carbon steel blades is laminated and that is the best one. The one issue with moras is they need a fair bit of work by the owner to make them work to their potential.
I like fiddling with my gear but if you want something perfect out of the box there are better choices.

Fallkniven are excellent but the blades are alot thicker than a mora by Erikson.
Fallkniven and most scandinavian knife manufacturers offer blades for people who make their own handles and sheaths. Alot of people like to customize their moras with fancy handles and custom sheaths.

I use a stainless clipper in my car survival kits because the kit knives may sit for years without being used or cared for. The stainless(sandavik) is very good, for stainless.
 
this is a big time ongoing discussion.

Lets not get all inflamed by this but here goes.

Big knife in the woods=a rookie or wanabe

Modest knife in the woods=he has the t shirt.

The Ka-bar is a great knife. truely is. In a war zone, where you might need to stab some guy, open a can of rations. hammer something, or use it to help dig a fox hole, there probably is not much better.

If you are not in a war zone, there are lots better tools available. If you look at the people who make their living in the wilds, most carry a smaller fixed blade and some kind of folder. I can not ever remember seeing a guide or native who carried a big knife.

Mora's are GREAT knives for the money. They are made of good steel and usually heat treated well for what they are needed for.

The issues of what steel open up pandora's box. I have seen grown men nearly throw punches at a show over which steel was the best.


Heat treat makes more difference than steel.

great steel(S30V or 154CM) with crappy heat treat=crappy knife

1095 with great heat treat=fantasitic knife

There is a difference between carbon and stainless, but very slim.

At the point where you are going to get a really good tough, sharp, durable edged knife, the differences are miniscule. That said, living in a moist, hot environment, I would definitely look for a stain resistant steel. 440C. ATS 34 or 154 CM would all make good choices. I would stay away from AUS-8, 420 stainless or any thing listed as 440 stainless (without the C) or surgical stainless. A well made hefty but smaller blade with serve your grandchildren. so buy well.

I really like the aforementioned bark river knives, great company to do business with. The owner is a stand up guy of the highest order and his people back the knives they make 100%. you mess it up, they will fix it. period.

They are knife users too. living in the UP of michigan, they are out in the woods all the time and that shows in the designs


PLease note, there are a lot of companies run by people who have a knack for marketing phrases. it is easy to be seduced by this. Very few are the companies that are run by knife people who actually spend nights under the stars. A good knife is not part axe, part hammer, bottle opener, and aircraft escape tool. it is a knife, period.


Hope this helps, feel free to PM if you want some more direct answers about different companies,

If you think the short little scandanavian blades are a little whimpy, ask the Soviet troops who fought the Finns during the Winter War. The feared the Puuko and the men who used it in the night....
 
Doug Ritter RSK

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I don't own one (yet) but I own a lot of his other bits and bobs and a lot of thought goes into his stuff:)

Good steel, won't rot, good lock up, made by Benchmade etc, etc...
 
Kabar with a Kydex sheath would take care of almost all of a persons needs, add a small axe and your good to go.:D
 
I was recently gifted with a 3.5" clip point fixed blade that fits the bill for most things. I also almost have a lock-blade SAK when I am out in the woods. If I am going out and not coming back though I want my HI Khukri, despite the weight.
 
SM is on the money. There is a wealth of knowledge at knifeforums. If I was a young pup starting out, I'd go with a Bark River Gameskeeper and with that said, I carry a Randall #1 and a Blackjack 1-7. I like the looks of the Razorback Big Buffalo Horn and just ordered one of thoseand it will be my camp and survival knife. It's good to have a quality pocket knife and always carry it. I keep several different knives in my PSK and a 12 inch Ontario machete on my BOB. You can never have too many knives.
 
I see a lot of jawing about uber-tactical specialty survival knives, but no comments on my machete. You'd have an awfully hard time felling trees, chopping firewood, clearing paths, or cutting up wood to build shelters with a 'survival' knife, even if it's a fairly large one (6" or so) but with my Ontario machete I can do all of the above. And I don't need to keep a razor sharp edge on it to do any of that, though a pocket diamond stone wouldn't be too bad of an idea to lash to the sheath. And if you break it, well... It's only 40 bucks down the drain, not a 250 dollar (or more!) custom or other nonsense.

Carry that in conjunction with a decent multi tool: Smaller knife to keep sharp (carving, skinning), pliers (first aid, fish hooks), maybe small scissors (cutting animal hide, fishing lines) and so forth seem infinitely more useful to me than a big scary looking knife.
 
GO with a KA-BAR

You said you wanted a do-all KNIFE that will appeal to EVERYTHING? Then get the KA-BAR. The KA-BAR has a nice leather handle that fits beautiful in any hand, has a hammer butt-plate for self explanatory reasons, has a double handguard so you wont slip up onto the blade if you intend to stab something (afterall, you might need it for self defense as well.), has a nice thick 7" blade, it might be a pain in the butt to chop things with, but a lot better leverage than a 3 inch blade, and if you need three inches to cut things, use the first three inches of the blade, if you need to do delicate work, pinch the knife towards the tip and have at it. Leather sheaths are plentiful and cheap. This is my opinion if you want ONE knife.
 
I'm still a fan of these guys:

Ontario/RAT TAK-1
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You can get them in D2 or 1095. I think a 4.25" flat-ground blade is just about right for woods use.
 
My Criteria for a "survival knife."

Above all, the survival knife shall not be a folder. Why carry one that is pre-broken?

1. It shall not be stainless steel. Stainless is not as shock resistant as carbon and doesn't wear as well as carbon. It does look prettier and that's about it. A well done carbon blade, properly ground and heat treated, will always outperform a stainless counterpart.

2. It shall not be over five or six inches maximum. I do not purport to know how the machete became popular in the woods of North America, but such a blade is the ultimate compromise. It is nowhere near as good as an axe for chopping and it is not as useful for bushcrafting as a smaller blade is. A largish blade is ill suited to prying, rooting, and other unconventional knife tasks and is tougher to carry.

3. It shall have a secure sheath. Rapid deployment is nowhere near as important as security. Need a rapidly deployed knife? Take along a tactical folder. The main knife is the one you do not lose under any circumstances.

4. It shall have a reinforced point. I don't want it too pointy, but I don't want it not pointy enough. I prefer a drop point.

5. If it has a guard at all, the guard shall be single. A double guard is a hallmark of the fighting knife and it gets in the way of fine knife control. I'm not going to be fighting anyone with a knife. Worried about the wildlife? Make a fire hardened tipped spear with your knife. Feeling sophisticated? Flint knap a spear head and lash it to a stick. Distance is your friend in combat, especially with an animal.

6. It shall have a belly. The blade should have some curve to it. No wharncliffs. No tantos. No daggers. The thing needs to be able to cut a variety of material and it needs to be able to do it a lot. Severely straight edge(s) are a liability to productive work.

7. It shall not be overhardened. I'll trade a little edge holding ability for more shock resistance and being able to sharpen the knife on a river stone.

My favorites in no particular order:

Issakki Jarkenpaa Leuku/Puukko double knife rig. A 6.5 inch and a 3.8 inch scandi ground pair of knives in carbon steel with black, unpolished flats. Best wood working knives I have yet encountered. The bigger one is big enough for light chopping and can be batoned. The smaller one is easy to get terrifically sharp. Sheath is ultra secure in keeping the blades in.

Bark River Gameskeeper. A fantastically sharp convex ground A2 drop point hunter. I can't imagine breaking any of the three I own because it seems impossible. Factory sheath sucks.

Ontario RAT-5 or 7. My 1095 steel flat ground economy choice. Best American knives made for below $100.00 IMO. Factory sheath is really nice for the money and comes with a clip locking pouch.

I knock the Ka-Bar as an all arounder for the double guard and the relatively weak stick tang construction. The SOGs are stainless, (and not a really good grade to boot), have squarish handles and blade serrations and the blade profile is kind of incoherent. One can certainly do better in the price range or for just a little more.
 
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mattw,
Get this book: "Bushcraft" by Mors Kochanski.. He is da' man when it comes to outdoors survival & living.

http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Out..._bbs_sr_1/102-3441240-5621705?ie=UTF8&s=books

The Bushcraft book will breakdown the proper use & care for knife, axe and saw in the outdoors. He is also a big proponent of Mora style knives for outdoors use.

Mors can take a 4" Mora knife and cut down 6" saplings, even larger trees if he uses a baton.
 
If you want to try a puukko, there is not a better place to get started than at http://www.ragweedforge.com/

Ragnar is top notch. His prices are fair, and unless otherwise noted, he only charges a flat $5.00 for shipping.

Personally, my next puukko is a Wood Jewel 10cm Carving Knife for $51.00

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