Alliant Green Dot

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Ret.CWO

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I came into several pounds of Alliant green dot. I know this powder is used for shotgun shell loading. I don't load Shot Shells. Does anyone know if this could be used in mild pistol loads. I use Unique and Red Dot in 38's and 357. The Green dot is very closely related to these powders. Hate to just dispose of it as it's new and unopened.
 
Speer #11 lists some Green Dot loads for .357, but nothing for .38.

Examples:
125 JHP or JSP 8.0 gr start, 8.5 gr max
158 JHP or JSP 7.0 start, 7.5 max
 
Alliant shows loads for 44 Rem magnum(light loads), 45 Colt and 45ACP as well as being a good powder in 28 and 20Ga shotshells. You should be able to sell it locally, I would think, should you want to part with some of it.


NCsmitty
 
I've used a lot of Green Dot for 9mm and 45ACP cast bullet loads. It's economical (my standard loads were about a grain less with Green Dot than with Unique), accurate enough, and fairly clean.

It's roughly between WW231 and AA#5 in burn rate, according to most charts.
 
I've had good luck with green dot in 44 magnum plinking loads. Consistent velocities and easy recoil. I've heard different things concerning accuracy, but it seems pretty accurate to me.

-MW
 
I purchased some estate sale Green Dot, had to figure out what to do with it. So I decided to load up a bunch of 125 grain bullets for my S&W Airweights.

My Airweights shoot to point of aim with 125 grain bullets.

I think I settled on a load of 4.5 grs Green Dot as that load gave the least leading.

It was very accurate. I did not have any issues. I believe Green Dot will work well in the 38 Special.

The 158 grain load with 3.5 grains Bullseye is my "reference" load. I will shoot that over the screens, and if the numbers are off, then I know something is out of alignment.


Code:
[SIZE="3"]S&W M637-2  2" barrel

158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases		
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		 	 		
Ave Vel =679				
Std Dev =16.48				
ES 56.11				
High 698.2				
Low 642				
N = 18


			
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP  9-Apr-06   T = 59 F
Ave Vel =	760.4	 			
Std Dev =	27.33				 
ES	82.1				 
High	798.9			 	 
Low	716.8			 	 
N =	19				 
More or less Point of aim Surprising recoil					
					
					
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
					
Ave Vel =	813.2	 		 	
Std Dev =	44.55			 	 
ES	176.5			 	 
High	903.3			 	 
Low	726.8			 	 
N =	24				 

POI, little leading					
	
125 Lead BBRNFP 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
					
Ave Vel =	867.3	 		 	
Std Dev =	57.54			 	 
ES	178.1			 	 
High	966			 	 
Low	787.8			 	 
N =	21				 
1-2" above POI, more leading
					
125 JHP (W/W) 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
					
Ave Vel =	760.4	 		 	
Std Dev =	68			 	 
ES	56			 	 
High	205.1			 	 
Low	885.4			 	 
N =	13				 
very accurate 					
	
125 JHP (W/W) 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
					
Ave Vel =	808.9	 		 	
Std Dev =	56.82			 	 
ES	95.46	 		 	 
High	914.2	 		 	 
Low	712.8			 	 
N =	20				 
25 yds accuracy OK, 
[/SIZE]

ReducedM638AirweightMarkingsDSCN493.gif
 
Data from earlier Alliant Powder on line loading manual.
 

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I decided to update this thread with 45ACP data.

I was able to conduct chronograph tests this weekend. It was warm enough that the Chrony Chronograph functioned. My Chrono will not operate in temperatures in the 30’s, or lower 40’s. Must be due to cold effecting the battery voltage.

I have a cardboard container of older, estate sale, Green Dot. I assume it is late 70’s to early 80’s. It is old enough that the shiny tinned metal bottom has a small number of rust spots from the powder. The powder does not smell, I don’t see any red, but I want to shoot it up as soon as possible. It is at the end of its shelf life.

Green Dot works well in the 45 ACP. My M1911’s functioned every time on the 700 fps 4.5 grain load. That load had very little recoil and yet clustered well. I judge the accuracy of the ammo by the clustering on my 25 yard gong target. Since I shoot offhand my accuracy is highly variable compared to someone shooting off sandbags. I can say that Green Dot has accuracy potential as it clustered well, but I cannot say that it is any more accurate than any other powder.

Green Dot must be just a little slower burning than Bullseye as 5.0 grains of Green Dot gave me the same velocities as 4.5 grains Bullseye. Green Dot is still a fast burning powder.

I fired my loads in two different M1911’s and I was glad to learn that the velocities were similar between the pistols.

Some people are ultra fussy about clean burning powders. I am not. I cannot say Green Dot is a “clean” powder as the wind was whipping through around 15 mph. Any residue in the air was gone before I could see it. My M1911’s cleaned up as usual, but I have must have a higher tolerance about residue than the clean crowd as I am not bothered cleaning up after using Bullseye or Unique.

I like my practice ammo to be just around 800 fps, or less, so I am loading up several hundred more rounds with the 5.0 grains Green Dot.

I am not looking to replace any of my favorite pistols powders of Bullseye, Unique and 2400 with Green Dot. I am also not looking to add more Green Dot to the collection. But I won’t turn down Green Dot if I get it at a great price as it shoots well in the 38 Special and 45 ACP.

Code:
[SIZE="3"]Kimber Custom Classic 

230 gr LRN  [B]4.5 grs Bullseye [/B]99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
16-May-09	 high 83  °F OAL 1.250"	taper crimp .469"

[B]Ave Vel =805.2[/B]				
Std Dev =38.07				
ES =	136.9				
High = 912.4				
Low =	775.5				
N =	24				

230 LRN [B]4.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
			
[B]Ave Vel =708[/B] fps	 
Std Dev =12		 
ES =	40		
High = 727		
Low =	687		
N =	9		
accurate, little high, mild recoil
			
230 LRN [B]5.0 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
			
[B]Ave Vel =802fps[/B]	
Std Dev =19		
ES =	61		
High = 841		
Low =	780		
N =	15		
	 		
230 LRN [B]5.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
			
[B]Ave Vel =873[/B]	fps	
Std Dev =30		
ES =	88		
High = 922		
Low =	834		
N =	11 [/SIZE]

KimberRightSideDSCN0753.jpg

Code:
[size="3"]M1911 Springfield Armory 5” Kart Barrel		
					
					
230 LRN [B]4.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
					
[B]Ave Vel =719[/B]	fps			
Std Dev =26				
ES =	105.1				
High = 771				
Low =	665.9				
N =	14				
	accurate, little high, mild recoil		
					
230 LRN [B]5.0 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
					
[B]Ave Vel =803  fps[/B]			
Std Dev =25				
ES =	97				
High = 867				
Low =	770				
N =	16				
Accurate, centered

230 LRN [B]5.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
					
[B]Ave Vel =853  fps[/B]			
Std Dev =29				
ES =	116				
High = 918				
Low =	802				
N =	15 very accurate, centered [/size]

M1911SArightsidefulllength.jpg
 
It's roughly between WW231 and AA#5 in burn rate, according to most charts.

Winchester burn rate chart is showing Green Dot to be faster than W231/HP38.
Still, many have said Green Dot burns close enough to be a decent W231/HP38 at a much lower price too (about $35-40/8 lbs).

http://www.wwpowder.com/burn-rate.html

6 Alliant - Red Dot
8 IMR - Hi-Skor 700-X
9 Alliant - Bullseye
10 Hodgdon - TITEGROUP
13 Alliant - Green Dot
20 Accurate - No. 2
22 Hodgdon - HP38
23 Winchester - 231
25 Alliant - Unique
27 Alliant - Power Pistol
34 Accurate - No. 5
 
I use Geen Dot for my 38spl rounds
125 gr jacketed bullet with 4.0 gr of greenDot

148 gr Wad Cutter with 2.7 gr of greenDot
 
SlamFire1,
Thanks for the update and range data...

For the 45ACP, powder charge looks similar to W231/HP38 (I use 5.0-5.5gr 1.25" OAL for 230gr bullet).

Someone in another thread posted they use Green Dot as close substitute for W231/HP38. How clean burning is Green Dot compared to W231/HP38?
 
Someone in another thread posted they use Green Dot as close substitute for W231/HP38. How clean burning is Green Dot compared to W231/HP38?
In addition, Ramshot Zip is almost a clone for W231. Zip is probably the closest powder you will find that mimics W231.
 
I never shot Ramshot powders.

Ramshot Zip is also a double based, modified (flattened) spherical powder with virtually the same burn rate. How does it meter? Is it similar in size to W231?
 
Can you tell the difference just looking at it? I can't. Dang similar, aren't they. Same size, same look, same two shades.

attachment.php

attachment.php
 

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This target pic was from an early test with Zip. Velocity was right at 600+(Start load-Berrys 230 RN), but except where I choked on the 5th shot, it was accurate. (7 yards through the chrono)

I got sidetracked after that and have not followed up, but it stuck in my memory banks for sure.
 
I have shot lots of W231, none of Zip. Someone else will have to test this, but it is entirely possible that W231 is the same as Zip. As W231 is the same as HP38.


Same powder, different bottles. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last time.
 
The Zip I have is denser by a bit than the W-231 I have, but that could be lot to lot differences, plus the W-231 I have is in 3 Lb metal cans. Quite a bit older than the Zip I have.
 
I "think" a lot of Ramshot powders are the same as some Accurate Arms powders. I'm nearly 100% sure Ramshot Enforcer is the same as AA4100.
Ramshot does have the coolest names though.


Also different burn rate charts are sooo different a lot of the time. I take them with a grain of salt.
 
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