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Alliant Green Dot

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Ret.CWO, Oct 27, 2009.

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  1. Ret.CWO

    Ret.CWO Member

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    I came into several pounds of Alliant green dot. I know this powder is used for shotgun shell loading. I don't load Shot Shells. Does anyone know if this could be used in mild pistol loads. I use Unique and Red Dot in 38's and 357. The Green dot is very closely related to these powders. Hate to just dispose of it as it's new and unopened.
     
  2. Dynamite Rabbit

    Dynamite Rabbit Member

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    Speer #11 lists some Green Dot loads for .357, but nothing for .38.

    Examples:
    125 JHP or JSP 8.0 gr start, 8.5 gr max
    158 JHP or JSP 7.0 start, 7.5 max
     
  3. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    Alliant shows loads for 44 Rem magnum(light loads), 45 Colt and 45ACP as well as being a good powder in 28 and 20Ga shotshells. You should be able to sell it locally, I would think, should you want to part with some of it.


    NCsmitty
     
  4. Ret.CWO

    Ret.CWO Member

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    Thanks guy's now I know were to investigate.
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    I've used a lot of Green Dot for 9mm and 45ACP cast bullet loads. It's economical (my standard loads were about a grain less with Green Dot than with Unique), accurate enough, and fairly clean.

    It's roughly between WW231 and AA#5 in burn rate, according to most charts.
     
  6. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  7. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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  8. MovedWest

    MovedWest Member

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    I've had good luck with green dot in 44 magnum plinking loads. Consistent velocities and easy recoil. I've heard different things concerning accuracy, but it seems pretty accurate to me.

    -MW
     
  9. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I purchased some estate sale Green Dot, had to figure out what to do with it. So I decided to load up a bunch of 125 grain bullets for my S&W Airweights.

    My Airweights shoot to point of aim with 125 grain bullets.

    I think I settled on a load of 4.5 grs Green Dot as that load gave the least leading.

    It was very accurate. I did not have any issues. I believe Green Dot will work well in the 38 Special.

    The 158 grain load with 3.5 grains Bullseye is my "reference" load. I will shoot that over the screens, and if the numbers are off, then I know something is out of alignment.


    Code:
    [SIZE="3"]S&W M637-2  2" barrel
    
    158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases		
    6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		 	 		
    Ave Vel =679				
    Std Dev =16.48				
    ES 56.11				
    High 698.2				
    Low 642				
    N = 18
    
    
    			
    125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP  9-Apr-06   T = 59 F
    Ave Vel =	760.4	 			
    Std Dev =	27.33				 
    ES	82.1				 
    High	798.9			 	 
    Low	716.8			 	 
    N =	19				 
    More or less Point of aim Surprising recoil					
    					
    					
    125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
    6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
    					
    Ave Vel =	813.2	 		 	
    Std Dev =	44.55			 	 
    ES	176.5			 	 
    High	903.3			 	 
    Low	726.8			 	 
    N =	24				 
    
    POI, little leading					
    	
    125 Lead BBRNFP 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
    6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
    					
    Ave Vel =	867.3	 		 	
    Std Dev =	57.54			 	 
    ES	178.1			 	 
    High	966			 	 
    Low	787.8			 	 
    N =	21				 
    1-2" above POI, more leading
    					
    125 JHP (W/W) 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
    6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
    					
    Ave Vel =	760.4	 		 	
    Std Dev =	68			 	 
    ES	56			 	 
    High	205.1			 	 
    Low	885.4			 	 
    N =	13				 
    very accurate 					
    	
    125 JHP (W/W) 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
    6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
    					
    Ave Vel =	808.9	 		 	
    Std Dev =	56.82			 	 
    ES	95.46	 		 	 
    High	914.2	 		 	 
    Low	712.8			 	 
    N =	20				 
    25 yds accuracy OK, 
    [/SIZE]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Data from earlier Alliant Powder on line loading manual.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    Green Dot is one of the most versatile handgun powders available.
     
  12. Ret.CWO

    Ret.CWO Member

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    Thank's never used it. I have on hand Red Dot & Unique. Now have five pounds of Green Dot. I'll be giving it a try.
     
  13. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I decided to update this thread with 45ACP data.

    I was able to conduct chronograph tests this weekend. It was warm enough that the Chrony Chronograph functioned. My Chrono will not operate in temperatures in the 30’s, or lower 40’s. Must be due to cold effecting the battery voltage.

    I have a cardboard container of older, estate sale, Green Dot. I assume it is late 70’s to early 80’s. It is old enough that the shiny tinned metal bottom has a small number of rust spots from the powder. The powder does not smell, I don’t see any red, but I want to shoot it up as soon as possible. It is at the end of its shelf life.

    Green Dot works well in the 45 ACP. My M1911’s functioned every time on the 700 fps 4.5 grain load. That load had very little recoil and yet clustered well. I judge the accuracy of the ammo by the clustering on my 25 yard gong target. Since I shoot offhand my accuracy is highly variable compared to someone shooting off sandbags. I can say that Green Dot has accuracy potential as it clustered well, but I cannot say that it is any more accurate than any other powder.

    Green Dot must be just a little slower burning than Bullseye as 5.0 grains of Green Dot gave me the same velocities as 4.5 grains Bullseye. Green Dot is still a fast burning powder.

    I fired my loads in two different M1911’s and I was glad to learn that the velocities were similar between the pistols.

    Some people are ultra fussy about clean burning powders. I am not. I cannot say Green Dot is a “clean” powder as the wind was whipping through around 15 mph. Any residue in the air was gone before I could see it. My M1911’s cleaned up as usual, but I have must have a higher tolerance about residue than the clean crowd as I am not bothered cleaning up after using Bullseye or Unique.

    I like my practice ammo to be just around 800 fps, or less, so I am loading up several hundred more rounds with the 5.0 grains Green Dot.

    I am not looking to replace any of my favorite pistols powders of Bullseye, Unique and 2400 with Green Dot. I am also not looking to add more Green Dot to the collection. But I won’t turn down Green Dot if I get it at a great price as it shoots well in the 38 Special and 45 ACP.

    Code:
    [SIZE="3"]Kimber Custom Classic 
    
    230 gr LRN  [B]4.5 grs Bullseye [/B]99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
    16-May-09	 high 83  °F OAL 1.250"	taper crimp .469"
    
    [B]Ave Vel =805.2[/B]				
    Std Dev =38.07				
    ES =	136.9				
    High = 912.4				
    Low =	775.5				
    N =	24				
    
    230 LRN [B]4.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
    			
    [B]Ave Vel =708[/B] fps	 
    Std Dev =12		 
    ES =	40		
    High = 727		
    Low =	687		
    N =	9		
    accurate, little high, mild recoil
    			
    230 LRN [B]5.0 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
    			
    [B]Ave Vel =802fps[/B]	
    Std Dev =19		
    ES =	61		
    High = 841		
    Low =	780		
    N =	15		
    	 		
    230 LRN [B]5.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F	
    			
    [B]Ave Vel =873[/B]	fps	
    Std Dev =30		
    ES =	88		
    High = 922		
    Low =	834		
    N =	11 [/SIZE]
    [​IMG]

    Code:
    [size="3"]M1911 Springfield Armory 5” Kart Barrel		
    					
    					
    230 LRN [B]4.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
    					
    [B]Ave Vel =719[/B]	fps			
    Std Dev =26				
    ES =	105.1				
    High = 771				
    Low =	665.9				
    N =	14				
    	accurate, little high, mild recoil		
    					
    230 LRN [B]5.0 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
    					
    [B]Ave Vel =803  fps[/B]			
    Std Dev =25				
    ES =	97				
    High = 867				
    Low =	770				
    N =	16				
    Accurate, centered
    
    230 LRN [B]5.5 grs Green Dot[/B] lot 178 WLP  Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
    27 Feb 2010         T = 48 ° F			
    					
    [B]Ave Vel =853  fps[/B]			
    Std Dev =29				
    ES =	116				
    High = 918				
    Low =	802				
    N =	15 very accurate, centered [/size]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. bds

    bds Member

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    Winchester burn rate chart is showing Green Dot to be faster than W231/HP38.
    Still, many have said Green Dot burns close enough to be a decent W231/HP38 at a much lower price too (about $35-40/8 lbs).

    http://www.wwpowder.com/burn-rate.html

     
  15. deadeyedog270

    deadeyedog270 Member

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    I use Geen Dot for my 38spl rounds
    125 gr jacketed bullet with 4.0 gr of greenDot

    148 gr Wad Cutter with 2.7 gr of greenDot
     
  16. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    SlamFire1,
    Thanks for the update and range data...
     
  17. bds

    bds Member

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    For the 45ACP, powder charge looks similar to W231/HP38 (I use 5.0-5.5gr 1.25" OAL for 230gr bullet).

    Someone in another thread posted they use Green Dot as close substitute for W231/HP38. How clean burning is Green Dot compared to W231/HP38?
     
  18. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    In addition, Ramshot Zip is almost a clone for W231. Zip is probably the closest powder you will find that mimics W231.
     
  19. bds

    bds Member

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    I never shot Ramshot powders.

    Ramshot Zip is also a double based, modified (flattened) spherical powder with virtually the same burn rate. How does it meter? Is it similar in size to W231?
     
  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Can you tell the difference just looking at it? I can't. Dang similar, aren't they. Same size, same look, same two shades.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  21. bds

    bds Member

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    Thanks for the pictures Walkalong.

    Yup, they seem close enough for me.
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    This target pic was from an early test with Zip. Velocity was right at 600+(Start load-Berrys 230 RN), but except where I choked on the 5th shot, it was accurate. (7 yards through the chrono)

    I got sidetracked after that and have not followed up, but it stuck in my memory banks for sure.
     
  23. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I have shot lots of W231, none of Zip. Someone else will have to test this, but it is entirely possible that W231 is the same as Zip. As W231 is the same as HP38.


    Same powder, different bottles. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last time.
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The Zip I have is denser by a bit than the W-231 I have, but that could be lot to lot differences, plus the W-231 I have is in 3 Lb metal cans. Quite a bit older than the Zip I have.
     
  25. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    I "think" a lot of Ramshot powders are the same as some Accurate Arms powders. I'm nearly 100% sure Ramshot Enforcer is the same as AA4100.
    Ramshot does have the coolest names though.


    Also different burn rate charts are sooo different a lot of the time. I take them with a grain of salt.
     
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