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Allowing a felon to shoot a gun without knowledge of them being one?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by PILMAN, Nov 12, 2007.

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  1. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    I am wondering if it is a felony to take a felon to a shooting range without knowledge of them being a felon, in other words, the person told you they were a felon after you had taken them shooting? Is it our duty to ask a person before taking them to the range if they are a felon?
     
  2. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    I think you could still be accountable for taking them from a legal standpoint.. Not knowing wouldn't keep you out of trouble
     
  3. cyclist

    cyclist Member

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    Is it against the law to possess a stolen firearm if you don't know it's stolen?
    Is it against the law to speed in your car if you didn't see the speed limit sign?

    There are exceptions, that's what judges and lawyers are for ( of which I'm neither ).
     
  4. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Felons can't shoot someone else's firearm as long as they don't take possession and control?

    I'm not sure that's right.

    Machineguns must be in the possession and control of the registered owner but they allow others to shoot them all the time.

    I don't think you have a problem.
     
  5. Conqueror

    Conqueror Member

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    You can take felons shooting all you want. They cannot own guns, there's no law against them shooting your gun while you supervise.
     
  6. hyphen

    hyphen Member

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    From what I know it doesn't say that a felon can't fire someone else's gun at the range, just that they cannot legally purchase or own one. If that were the case I believe all gun ranges would be doing background checks on their customers.
     
  7. EShell

    EShell Member

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    G.Gordon Liddy broadcast that he shoot's "his wife's" guns . . .
     
  8. nhhillbilly

    nhhillbilly Member

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    It is illegal for a felon to possess a firearm. In NH it is ellegal for a felon to possess a dangerous weapon. It doesn’t matter who owns it.

    There is a State of mind requirement for someone to commit a crime. IE in NH you have to prove knowingly provide a firearms to a person known to you to be a prohibited person. Do not allow a prohibited person to touch your firearms.
     
  9. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Member

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  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    As long as you are not letting them shoot it inside a 7-11 store,
    you should be O.K.! :what:

    1224.jpg
    rcmodel
     
  11. One of Many

    One of Many Member

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    The government uses the commerce clause to justify all kinds of restrictions, and since almost every firearm has at some point in time crossed a state line in a commercial transaction, then any felon who even touches a firearm or ammunition is committing a new federal felony by doing so. This has been used to add on charges to increase the prison time when guns are used in the commission of a different federal felony. Do any of you want to risk being charged as an accessory to a federal crime by knowingly providing a gun and ammunition to a felon?
     
  12. STW

    STW Member

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    There's the law and there's how the law is used. A year or two ago a model was charged with possession as a felon when she was photographed wearing only a gun as part of a calender photo shoot. All she did was hold it for the photographer. (No I can't give you a link to a copy.)
     
  13. cookekdjr

    cookekdjr Member

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    I personally prosecuted a felon for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, when he had his sister take his photo while he was holding her gun.
    He's in prison now.
    We did not prosecute the sister...although we could have. She cooperated with our investigation, so we gave her a pass. We were mainly concerned with her brother, who sent the photo to the woman he had been stalking to let her know a) he was out of jail and b) he had access to guns. I was a fed at the time so we prosecuted him for the Federal Firearms statute (I think it was 922(g), can't remember for sure).
    Anyway, the crime occurs when the felon has access to the gun. If you facilitate that access and know that he's a felon, you are just as guilty as badguy....not that you can rely on what I say and you should of course consult your own attorney...not valid in Hawaii or Alaska...only one per family may enter...void where prohibited....
     
  14. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, not here in California. The only time a felon may possess a firearm is when there is an immediate need to use it for self-defense. Once that immediate need passes, they may no longer possess a firearm. Better check with your state law. If you knowingly allow a felon to handle your firearm, you may have some 'splaining to do.:uhoh:
     
  15. skidooman

    skidooman Member

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    Well lets hope the next time frank the felon is getting mugged there happens to be a pistol lying on the street so he can pick it up and use, then put it right back down. That makes sense... (fart noise)
    I hate California...
     
  16. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    So technically a felon in state A is perfectly legal to purchase, own, and possess a firearm that has been manufactured in his state of residence, so long as it's never left the state.

    Interesting.
     
  17. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Again I think you need to dig into the word "possess" here.

    Take the machinegun example. I may not allow anyone other than the person named on the tax form to have possession of my MGs, but I may allow them to shoot it in my presence. That is not considered to be out of my care, custody, and control.

    Otherwise how would Knob Creek exist?
     
  18. jeep-2

    jeep-2 Member

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    It dosen't matter what any state law says, the federal law says that a felon may not even have a cartrige in their possession.
    the only time they can even be near a gun is when it is in the hands of a LEO.
    they can have and shoot BP guns, but not inlines, some states do not even give them that right.
     
  19. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

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    You guys ever hear of that swimsuit model who was a felon, her P.O. saw her picture in a gun calender and sent her back to prison.

    "Mistake of fact" is a strong defense, as it adds a reasonable doubt.
     
  20. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    As I understand it, no you can't. Even if it weren't illegal for them to handle/use the firearms, the minute you hand them ammunition they have broken the law...and so have YOU.

    Additionally, having a convicted felon in the car with you while you are armed or while firearms are in the vehicle, can be grounds for arrest and prosecution. There's a sticky local case headed to court right now where a guy was coming back from hunting and (so the story goes) gave a hitchhiker a lift into town. Well he got stopped for speeding and it turns out the hitchhiker was a convicted felon. Felon in vehicle with firearms... EVERYONE gets arrested and the Judge gets to figure it out later.

    As I understand it the entire case hinges on if the hunter knew the hitchhiker at all or if the hitchhiker was a complete stranger.

    If you had a squeeky clean record you might, just might, get away with "but I didn't know he/she was a felon"...once.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  21. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Do you have details on that case?

    Thanks
     
  22. Conqueror

    Conqueror Member

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    I gotta agree with TexasRifleman. I think prosecuting someone for allowing a felon to touch a gun is a gross over-reach by the DA. Like TR pointed out, I cannot allow anyone to "possess" my suppressors, but I can freely let people shoot them all they want. It is illegal to "possess" marijuana, but cops handle it all the time. The spirit of "possession" is ownership, not transient handling. If a cop owned marijuana, he would get arrested. If he handled it, he would not.

    I'm sure there are plenty of court cases that disagree with me, but I doubt any of you are prepared to argue that prosecutors always follow the spirit or letter of the laws.
     
  23. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    Not yet, I'm trying to find out more but it hasn't been publicized yet. I only know about it via LEO contacts. It sure could make an UGLY precedent though :barf:
     
  24. Conqueror

    Conqueror Member

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    Further, am I supposed to do criminal background checks on everyone I meet at the range and allow to shoot my gun? Even asking isn't sufficient, as not many felons are going to respond, "Why yes, I am indeed a felon partaking in the gun range."

    Unless prosecutors expect you to run NICS checks on all your friends and coworkers, taking a felon to the range without knowledge that he's a felon should not land you in jail if your local DA has a shred of decency.
     
  25. FTA84

    FTA84 Member

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    Just a hypothetical:

    What are the rules for the wife / girlfriend living with a convicted felon (particularly wife-beaters) to own a gun ? I mean surely the gun cannot go everywhere with the wife / girlfriend. They should have one for their own defense.

    What about a roommate? At which point does the gun become stolen by the criminal and not made accessible by the live-in party?
     
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