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Almost there! Some more quick AK/Saiga questions.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BATTLESUIT, Mar 23, 2008.

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  1. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    I've narrowed my search, and now I'm considering two rifles. The Saiga 308 or the Saiga 308 version 21. I'm leaning towards version 21, because it looks like the trigger assembly is closer to the position of that of the AK-47. Any input on these two rifles would be welcomed.

    My specific questions are whether these rifles can be fitted with some AK-47 parts, such as the 47s wooden fore-end, and other after-market parts; and how difficult a modification would it be to allow the Saiga 308 to accept standard AK-47 magazines? Is it possible for these rifles to accept Saiga and AK magazines after modification?

    Can anyone kick me the web address for the Saiga forum again?

    After I figure out which rifle I'm going to buy, then I'll want to talk optics. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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  3. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    there is no such thing as a 308 / ak 47 mag.
    get surefire aftermarket mags , which are 20 or 25 rounders.
    the other two can accept both type mags, mine sure do, with a little dremeling, and
    also it wouldn't hurt to get a Dinzag made bullet guide. Also , there are guys who make wooden
    aftermarket furniture for the saiga. On the saiga site.
     
  4. pmbiker

    pmbiker Member

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    Any saiga, regardless of model # will have the trigger/hammer in the same location. The PG type stock being sold on some Saigas is just an optical illusion. In order to install a PG and correct buttstock on a saiga .308, you still have to remove the bottom plate, make sure the holes are all there (PG nut and trigger) and re-install the trigger guard in it's proper location.

    I've personally converted 2 of the saiga 308s and one in 7.62x39.
    The 308 was much easier but the x39 wasn't bad. Also the 308 version doesn't need a bullet guide. The factory and aftermarked mags have one built in. If you want your x39 to run with standard AK mags the bullet guide needs installed and the mag catch needs trimmed.

    It is possible to install most AK parts on a saiga. The lower HG needs a retainer, available from Dinzag and the upper requires a .mil gas tube. All PGs and stocks made for a stamped reciever will fit. The barrel on the .308 is FAT under the handguard. If you are going to install anything that may connect to the barrel, take that into consideration.
     
  5. fal 4 me

    fal 4 me Member

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    This is not correct. Even a quick glance at the .308 v21 clearly shows the trigger in the correct AK position. http://www.raacfirearms.com/rifles.htm
    Here's a link to the Russian American Arms rifles page.
     
  6. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    Hm... I believe it's time that we just made a sticky about Saigas. Cause you know no one visits Saiga12 through the links.
     
  7. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Users of the 25 round Surefire .308 Saiga mag need no bullet guide.
     
  8. pmbiker

    pmbiker Member

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    My bad. I had't seen that one, thought he was referring to the one with the optional plastic thumbhole stock. The website says avail. Fall '07, anybody seen or ordered one yet? I know how the firearms industry is so I don't expect so. The v21 would be the way to go. The conversion would be, well, not needed. Maybe a little hardware but no bottom plate, no moving the trigger guard etc.

    Lets just hope that's a square cut reciever under the butthole stock. The Romanians and Chinese have done it to us before.:cuss:
     
  9. Jguy101

    Jguy101 Member

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    No, it's angle cut; a few people on the Saiga forum have them, and they look really nice.
     
  10. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    The butthole stock? Is that the kind of rifle that pushes the spent cartridge out the bottom of buttstock?:what:;):neener::D:p
     
  11. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    The 21 is pretty close to the VEPR .308...It even looks like it was built on MOLOT tooling... remember, MOLOT got absorbed by Izhmash, due to patent infringment...
     
  12. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    What I meant was can you have a Saiga 308 accept both standard Saiga mags and standard AK mags? You've seemed to indicate that this can be done. I would assume, then, that I could take a Saiga 308-21, a Saiga mag, and an AK mag to my gun smith and tell him that I want the rifle to accept both.

    fal 4 me indicated that the trigger assembly on version 21 IS in the AK-47 position. Is this true? It's the SAME as an AK? This is good information and appreciated.
     
  13. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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    Nothing like milk and cheerios on the moniter, kcmarine :D

    Good luck on your project, BATTLESUIT.
     
  14. SaMx

    SaMx Member

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    no the saiga .308 won't take standark AK mags.
    .308 rounds won't fit in them.
     
  15. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    :banghead:Yes, that damn x51 next to the 7.62. This is starting to piss me off. The Saiga 308 doesn't fire 7.62 NATO rounds. Needless to say, I don't know a whole lot about bullets yet, and now I'm back to square one. What is the difference between a 7.62 round with an x39 after it, and one with a freeking x51 after it?:banghead:
     
  16. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Member

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    7.62x51 is known both as .308 and 7.62 NATO. There are some slight differences between the two, but either one can be fired from a Saiga .308. 7.62x39 is used in AK's and AK variants, and (as I am sure you have guessed) is shorter by 11 millimeters. I've heard it called "7.62 Russian."
    7.62 x 51(.308) is a more powerful, and generally more accurate round, although that could be because 7.62 x 39 only ever gets fired from AK's, not known for match accuracy.
    The only aftermarket magazines that I know of for Saiga .308's are made by Surefire and fbmg. I have read reports of people modifying Saiga .308's to accept M14/M1A magazines as well. Saiga's in 7.62x39 can be modified to accept standard AK magazines, or they can use aftermarket magazines specifically made for Saiga's.
    .308 AK's are not very common. Saiga and VEPR are the only ones that I know of. They still use the AK operating system, and many, although not all, parts are interchangeable with standard AK parts. Due to the longer length of the .308 round, magazines are not interchangeable with standard (7.62x39) AK's.
    http://forum.saiga-12.com/ Spend a few days reading through old threads at the Saiga forum for more information. Lots of people modify them and come up with all sorts of tricks and tips for them.
     
  17. CYANIDEGENOCIDE

    CYANIDEGENOCIDE Member

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    The Saiga 308 doesn't fire 7.62 NATO rounds. Needless to say, I don't know a whole lot about bullets yet, and now I'm back to square one. What is the difference between a 7.62 round with an x39 after it, and one with a freeking x51 after it?

    actually it does fire 7.62 nato. 7.62 nato, 7.62x51, and .308 are to the intent of this thread the same cartridge. the 7.62 is the diameter of the bullet in millimeters and the second number is the length of the case in millimeters. so no rifle could fire the 7.62 nato and the 7.62x39 interchanably because they required 2 very different chambers, and i have heard there is variations in bullet size, the .308 is a .308 bullet whereas the 7.62x39 is a .310-.312 bullet
     
  18. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Correct until you get into the Ruger Mini-30 which uses the 7.62x39 but has a .308 bore. But yes, the VAST majority of x39 guns have .310-.312 bores.
     
  19. Saiga39

    Saiga39 Member

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    So if I was thinking about picking up a Siaga .308, I wouldn't be able to shoot some of the surplus .308 I've seen available???

    That's the first I've heard that.
     
  20. SaMx

    SaMx Member

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    yes you could. The siaga .308 is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO
    you could definitely shoot surplus .308

    only 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have a .311 bullet. The main difference is the length of the case.
    think of it like the difference between .30-30 and .30-'06
     
  21. Saiga39

    Saiga39 Member

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    "yes you could. The siaga .308 is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO
    you could definitely shoot surplus .308

    only 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have a .311 bullet. The main difference is the length of the case.
    think of it like the difference between .30-30 and .30-'06"


    Oh okay. Yeah I'm aware of that difference.

    Thanks for the clarification.
     
  22. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

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    FBMG makes aftermarket mags that are top quality.
     
  23. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    So does surefire... and they are ALL AMERICAN parts.. FBMG uses Russian parts in theirs...
     
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