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Alternate self defense weapons ?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by BADUNAME30, Feb 6, 2013.

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  1. Sol

    Sol Member

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    True story; one time I was eating raw habaneros (I like the rush) and one of my "friends" knocked on the door. I answer the door and my "friend" was drunk, delusional drunk to be exact. So this drunken oaf, wavering at my doorstep slurring about some sort of hallucination of me wronging him or something. Whatever I pay no mind and tell the guy go home and sleep it off. Well, telling a drunk "what to do" is a no no I guess, and the guy starts yelling at me in my doorway. At this point I have a sweaty, stinking drunk screaming in my face, well into my personal bubble. Seeing as I don't like the presence of law enforcement I figured I had to get this guy to leave. I had a bottle of water with me so I took a nice swig and swishes in my mouth. I spat it right in his eyes and face. It took a second or two, but the pepper saliva water kicked in and all of a sudden this guy is screaming in pain and ran off. The cops found him rolling around in someones lawn a few blocks away and into the drunk tank with him.

    That was low road but a lesson in alternative weaponry.
     
  2. plateshooter

    plateshooter Member

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    In days gone by, I was working as a service tech and had to go into some pretty nasty areas. Carrying a gun was forbidden a knife would get you arrested if caught, and either would get you fired at the least.

    I found a 6 or 8oz ball peen hammer to be my friend. Fits easily tucked in the belt. The ball end works great as a muscle dysfunction tool, the side of the head is a great slapper on pressure points, and the face is good for breaking toes or ankles should you end up on the ground.

    I have taken several styles of martial arts in my younger years and the hammer can be adapted in any one of them from my experience.

    If you can't carry anything else, it is a pretty good option IMO.
     
  3. JimStC

    JimStC Member

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    Today my Escrima teacher introduced me to palm sticks. These are 12" versions of the traditional fighting sticks. We used them to defend against knife attacks, fist blows and stick attacks. I was very comfortable with the palm sticks since I have been training with the traditional weapons (sticks, knives and hands) for six months. The appealing characteristic of the palm sticks is that you are able to limit the injury to the attacker by the placement of the blows (forehead vs bicep, temple vs hand). Obviously training and proficiency are critical since the blocking, trapping and offensive techniques are not immediately obvious.
    We also used the palm sticks to effectuate arm locks, shoulder locks and take downs. It is a very effective tool with proper training.
    Just thought I'd share this since it seemed somewhat coincidental that I was introduced to this small weapon that could be carried in my coat pocket or back pants pocket today.

    Jim
     
  4. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    ^ A rolled up magazine is a good innocent looking alternative, with proper training, of course. :)
     
  5. JimStC

    JimStC Member

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    Doc,
    Rolled up tightly, absolutely right! What a great idea. Thanks.

    Jim
     
  6. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Good point

    I don't often mention this because it just doesn't come to mind

    Take a look at this video clip at the 3:10 point

    ...or a more practical explanation of Honda Korosu
     
  7. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    Do you have an example of this happening? :scrutiny:
     
  8. conw

    conw Member

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    I have to say I found the second video ridiculous, at least the demonstrations.
     
  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    If you are talking about the Ron Duncan video, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but Ron is the real deal. He was a US Marine and held Black Belts (before you just bought them) in Hakko Ryu Jujitsu, Dai-nippon Jujitsu Ryu, Sosuishi Ryu, Kin Dai Gakko Ryu, Aikido, Aiki-Jujitsu, Kempo, Kobujitsu and Shinobino-jitsu. He is also known as the Father of American Ninjitsu

    He was a recognized master of martial arts weapon and I've known about him since the 70s. He was once on television's Thrill Seekers and the Wide World of Sports catching live arrows in flight
     
  10. BADUNAME30

    BADUNAME30 Member

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    Thanx John. I never, until now, gave any thot to how you describe being boxed in as minimizing an escape route. Good point.
    I did initialy give thot to stepping out to the rear of my car when i saw him approach,but imediately thot to myself that if i do i will automaticaly escalate his already evident rage.
    He could have read that , as i think a poster here called, "chest thumping", and therefore put him on the spot as being challenged.
     
  11. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Sorry, Tang. Neither Duncan nor his uke move like kobudo practitioners- they move like karateka.

    This doesn't change the effectiveness of a rolled paper or magazine, but Duncan was a fraud- at least, when he claimed to be teaching one of Japan's oldest martial arts. I'lll give an example of a real kobudo teacher with a real heritage demonstrating a genuine historical art:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kekmvK4ulvo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I defer to your expertise..I didn't realize he'd been exposed as a fraud

    Just as well that I didn't follow my first impulse and refer to Daniel Trevanian's Nicholas Hel from Shibumi ;) (like the book, this is satire)
     
  13. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    in my early 20's i sprayed my friend in the face with pepper spray. I wouldn't trust it. It may help you escape. Thats the best review on pepper spray I can give.
     
  14. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    When I can't carry a knife, which is about never, I have a 9/32" t-handle Allen wrench cut back to about 3". The handle fills my grip perfectly, and 3" of hardened steel protruding from between my knuckles would hurt considerably if directed into soft tissue.

    As a mechanic, I have all sorts of tools around me that could serve as weapons. The Allen wrench is something strong, lightweight, and fits nicely into my back pocket.
     
  15. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    An interesting question.

    First of all, circumstances dictate both the optimum choice in weapons, both from an ideal perspective and from a practical perspective.

    The "ideal" weapon, of any type, is usually hypothetical, however. Practically speaking, whatever you have at hand is the reality you have to deal with.

    You don't give us the details necessary to fully evaluate your circumstance. And, before you may post in response to this, I'm not asking for those details. I'm just posting this to clarify.

    For example, "my potential assailant was within inches of my face and aggressively threatening to take my life" would not indicate to me that pepper spray would be your best option. It's difficult to maintain control of a situation if you unload a stream of pepper spray into your assailant's face when it's only a couple inches away from your own. Arms length or better, under ventilation conditions which minimize your own changes of getting a face full are optimal for this.

    If what you are truely looking for is "non-lethal self defense", I would seriously recommend training in some form of martial arts. Martial arts focuses on many aspects that armed self-defense does...starting with situational awareness. It also teaches you both unarmed and armed forms, depending on your level of training and the types of martial arts you choose to pursue.

    The advantage of martial arts training is that it's ALWAYS with you, no matter where you go and no matter what you have on hand. Such training allows you a great variety of options with respect to weapons of opportunity, too.

    You do not have to be a total bad*ss in martial arts to make it count. Simply deflecting an attack, increasing the distance between you and an assailant, or executing a simple block, hold, throw, or other form of physical defense can give you an opening you need to either leave or incapacitate your attacker...with or without the use of deadly force as required.

    Human interactions in conflict are a balance of four instinctive behavioral patterns: fight, flight, posture, and submission. How you interpret these behavioral patterns (for both yourself and your attacker) determines the weight you give to each. The ultimate resulting in the application of deadly force.

    I applaud you for a variety of reasons...

    1. You do not wish to use deadly force unless it's absolutely unavoidable.

    2. You wish to increase your non-lethal options.

    3. You have the brains to look back on your encounter with an analytical mindset and an eye to improve your options for possible future encounters.

    Whatever you choose to do, choose wisely. And, God willing, I pray you never find yourself in such a situation again.
     
  16. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Member

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    Inches from your face? Should never let anyone hostile get that close. A good cane is a great weapon IF you learn a few simple moves with one and can be carried anywhere and provides all important distance. IF a man is way inside my comfort zone I am personally fond of a palm strike to the chin, thumb under his chin & fingers of the same hand in his eye or if you have a cane use it as an impact weapon straight up to the chin, neck & stomp his instep. Works for me.
     
  17. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Wait till you get old ! Suddenly instead of the big lunking bad boy you are a tired , worn out white hair target! I let people posture and vent but will back pedal as far as possible. If 6 feet is closed I scream loud warnings to keep back as I am calling the police, keep coming and I yell STOP and go into lethal mode which WILL occur right at physical contact. I'll let the legal chips fall as I feel I am justified.No more less than lethal on humans from this senior citizen, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  18. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Watch some Youtube videos about how fast a fightfight can occur, and how quickly it can go badly for the loser.

    Knockout punches and kicks can and do occur, in an instant, with no warning. Once you're knocked out, it's game over for you. You may never wake up.

    It's often said that an attacker can close 21 feet distance in 1-2 seconds.

    I feel that nearly any serious attack by an adult male is deadly force if using fists or feet, and clearly if there are weapons. Stats show that more people are killed annually with feet and fists and clubs than with 'assault rifles.'

    My advice is to train how you fight, and stick to simple tools and know your own Escalation of Force contingency. Flashlights may diffuse a situation, or temporarily blind someone or give you better visibility whether they have a weapon, so they are good to carry. Pepper spray has it's place, and I carry it on occassion where I'm concerned about wild animals or stray dogs. But the handgun is for serious situations; if I feel that I'm in imminent fear of death or serious bodily harm, I go for the handgun.

    In my home? If you're there committing a serious felony and I fear for my safety, you'll wish you weren't. Fire extinquisher? Uh, no... 12 gauge.
     
  19. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm a big fan of the "M4gery" for HD. The Army gave me thousands of rounds to practice with one...so I've now practiced with one more than anything else. And it can handle multiple targets with minimal recoil, high effectiveness, and little chance of overpenetration. :)
     
  20. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I have gotten pretty good with my cane in the last 5 years, but it will not replace my side arm
     
  21. JimStC

    JimStC Member

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    Ditto on the M4. 10" barrel, YHM Ti suppressor, illuminated CQB glass, mounted light, laser. Sure can solve a lot of problems.......
    I have a couple of 12 ga too. Just like the M4 better.
    Jim
     
  22. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh, very nice. You running varmint bullets to ensure expansion from that barrel?
     
  23. JimStC

    JimStC Member

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    55 gr V Max over 24.0 gr H-322, 2.210 OAL.

    Edit to add: Also Hornady 55 gr fmj, rest of the specs are the same

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  24. robinkevin

    robinkevin Member

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    I like to carry a cane if going some place that I feel conflict is more likely than normal. I have trained in everything from Traditional Shotokan Karate, to Aikido, with that being said I suggest people that care about self defense learn first how to box. Boxing will teach you basic punches simple footwork and blocking. Then Jujitsu or Judo is prefer for close quarters. With Jujitsu I can disarm, and control an attacker rather quickly. In most cases a good wrist or arm lock is the fastest way to end an conflict and get control of the situation.
     
  25. JimStC

    JimStC Member

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    ^^^^^
    Excellent advice! Why didn't I think of that myself? Wait, I did and this is very coincidental. My Escrima instructor also teaches traditional boxing. He was the CA state kickboxing champion back in the '80's and his brother was #2 in the world in his boxing weight class during that time too.
    After 6 months or so of Escrima training I asked him to also train me in traditional boxing. I bought gloves, heavy bag and double end bag and set up a "gym" at my home so I can train on my off days. We have added boxing to our training. Seems like a good way to round out my program.

    Jim
     
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