Am I the only one who breaks these?

[wild willy]

I operated heavy equitment for 35 years we had guys that ran the piss outta stuff breaking down all the time.Then we had guys knew how to run it kept it greased and quess what stuff still broke down but not as often.Then we had some guys that never broke anything.It was union hard to get rid of somebody even if they didn't do anything

 

[1SOW]

Snuffy, ask a welder. Pot metal is, as said, a cast of cheap and brittle alloys. It can be difficult to weld, while pure aluminum is usually easy.

 

[1SOW]

During and since the primer-bullet "crisis", one root cause of equipment problems and failures may attributed to the flood of "new" primers that have sprung up. Wolf, Tula etc. with slightly different sizing and metal composition.

 

[LiveLife]

one root cause of equipment problems and failures may attributed to the flood of "new" primers that have sprung up. Wolf, Tula etc. with slightly different sizing and metal composition.

A man after my heart. My job involves investigating problems/concerns to identify cause and deficiencies.

I have been telling/posting that Tula/Wolf primers with a bit wider diameter cup body requires more effort to seat in the primer pockets. Very possible that more handles were broken due to this reason.

Most people I have talked to broke their old Auto Prime handles while trying to seat in military crimped primer pockets.

 

[Uniquedot]

Hey I've got a better idea, I'll just buy a tool that works and leave Lee to you Prima Donnas who can do it better.
35 yrs and now loading for over 40 calibers and one tool on my bench consistantly fails?

Doesn't matter how long you have been assembling ammunition. It's never too late to learn to do it right and until you do, the beefiest most overbuilt tools in the world is not going to correct the problem of you not doing it right in the first place. Feel the primer bottom out and then set the anvil and you're done. You are not supposed to attempt to swage the primer through the flash hole and if you are you're crushing the pellet in the process. Perhaps if after 3 + decades of putting together faulty ammunition you still can't understand the process you should seek a mentor.

 

[X-Rap]

Like I said before, this pot metal bunch is a rough crowd. If I had consistent issues with my reloads especially with ignition then I might say you have a valid point, If I broke a lot of equipment in my daily life I might also say you have a point.
In addition to reloading as a necessity to feed my shooting/hunting habit I work construction for a living and have made a living with my hands all my life, the dark Lee curse doesn't follow me there either. So I can operate and repair equipment without leaving a wake of broken parts there as well. As for those who make outright false claims and assumptions, well this is the highroad but in different company things might be a little more colorful and in person probably much more respectful. So keyboard commandos keep it up you wouldn't want to disappoint us.
Just please try to stick to something at least close to factual.

There seems to be a problem with breakage of a specific part of an otherwise popular useful tool
That tool has been discontinued and parts are no longer made or available but it has been replaced with a new tool that is heavily reinforced at the weak point in the other tool and the company offers a 1/2 price trade if you return the old one.

Simple as that gents, I asked a question and got an answer, thats what its about. I guess I should have check the Lee site first and could have saved a bunch of you getting your thongs in a wad.

 

[LiveLife]

the company offers a 1/2 price trade if you return the old one.

Really? Darn, but I already have 2 old Auto Prime and 2 new Auto Prime XR ... all with no broken handles and 2 spares for the old units

But good to know. Thanks!

 

[cfullgraf]

X-rap, well said.

i think there is an expectations among reloaders that equipment never wears out or never fails. With much of the reloading equipment, that is essentially true in our lifetime. We just don't cycle the equipment enough to see appreciable wear or fatigue.

You see posts on forums all the time about folks returning their Dillon presses for rebuilding/repair. Using the Lee Auto Prime analogy, they should be trashing their Dillons and buying something else. I guess the difference is the Dillon No Nonsense warranty and the high investment in Dillon equipment.

For me, the infant mortality of the Auto Prime was non-existent and time between failures was more than acceptable.

Finally, I suspect Lee considered the failures of the handle or other parts as acceptable considering the cost to machine new molds for the parts. Over the years, I saw small improvements in some of the Auto Prime parts. This thread is not a scientific study of the number failures of the Auto Prime.

For a small company manufacturing relatively small quantities of parts, molds can be a significant cost. A complete redesign of the Auto Prime afforded Lee the opportunity to make major improvements at no additional cost.

I am not completely happy with the operation of my priming tool that replaced the Auto Prime, maybe after this thread, I'll give the Auto Prime XR a try.

 

[LiveLife]

Those that have the XR, do Lee's instructions say to keep those pivot spots lubed?

I rechecked the XR documentation and no mention of lubrication.

Before each hand priming session, I have always cleaned and lubed the two metal contact surfaces lightly with BreakFree or motor oil. The new XR has much wider contact surface lobe and takes on more lube.

 

[ranger335v]

"Most people I have talked to broke their old Auto Prime handles while trying to seat in military crimped primer pockets."

I'm sure that many were broken by people trying to seat in pockets without correctly removing the crimps - who knows what percentage. Thing is, it's clear that many people NEVER break a Lee handle and quite a few more only break one before they learn how to use the tool properly. For the others, I dunno quite know what to say...??

What astonishes me is the number of people who admit to breaking or wearing out a string of Autoprimes, obviously never learning a thing! I really expected better insight from reloaders than that. Failing to lube the toggle link knuckles because there is no written instructions to do so sorta proves my point! (I've always used case lube but most any lube will work.)

 

[Uniquedot]

Failing to lube the toggle link knuckles because there is no written instructions to do so sorta proves my point!

I still have the instructions that came with mine in 91 and it specifically states that lubrication must be used.

 

[LiveLife]

I still have the instructions that came with mine in 91 and it specifically states that lubrication must be used.

I initially read only the text parts of the directions. I reread the XR directions and found this under #4 photos:

"Lubricate metal parts at wear points with grease or Vaseline."

My apologies to all. I have been using BreakFree/motor oil that's always on my bench but may consider trying Vaseline/light grease.

 

[X-Rap]

I'm sure that many were broken by people trying to seat in pockets without correctly removing the crimps - who knows what percentage. Thing is, it's clear that many people NEVER break a Lee handle and quite a few more only break one before they learn how to use the tool properly. For the others, I dunno quite know what to say...??

What astonishes me is the number of people who admit to breaking or wearing out a string of Autoprimes, obviously never learning a thing! I really expected better insight from reloaders than that. Failing to lube the toggle link knuckles because there is no written instructions to do so sorta proves my point! (I've always used case lube but most any lube will work.)

Some guys get married 3 or 4 times and still don't figure it out, I guess I'm not unhappy with getting 3-4 yrs use out of a tool made of plastic and pot metal. Much cheaper than a wife. The pictures tell it all the new lever has a stiffener running well across the failure area of the old one which was right at the reduction of thickness to width, a perfect place for stress failure. The more I read the more I understand that the old mod. had quite a few shortcomings, can't say as I know of other priming systems with so many caveats both printed and implied by its manufacturer and other users.
Military primer pockets aside since you will crush or deform with stronger systems the recommended quantity of primers allowed ranging from 100,20,10 to none at all is a bit bizarre and clearly points to some design problems. I realize that primers are volatile in any system but to segregate that hazard by brand is unusual is it not?

 

[cfullgraf]

"Most people I have talked to broke their old Auto Prime handles while trying to seat in military crimped primer pockets."

I'm sure that many were broken by people trying to seat in pockets without correctly removing the crimps - who knows what percentage. Thing is, it's clear that many people NEVER break a Lee handle and quite a few more only break one before they learn how to use the tool properly. For the others, I dunno quite know what to say...??

What astonishes me is the number of people who admit to breaking or wearing out a string of Autoprimes, obviously never learning a thing! I really expected better insight from reloaders than that. Failing to lube the toggle link knuckles because there is no written instructions to do so sorta proves my point! (I've always used case lube but most any lube will work.)

I started using Auto Primes around 1980 when I started reloading.

I will admit to breaking one handle but the force I used to seat the primer was only sufficient to get the primer to seat flush are slightly below flush, 0.001-.002 inches or so, as recommended by most reloading manuals. The handle failed over time, several years of use.

And. no, these were not military cases of any kind.

I have had one body fail. Probably for a similar reason as above. The body cracked where the shell holder slid in.

I had one connecting rod wear at the point where it contacted the primer seating stem. The connecting rod was a softer material than the later connecting rods and the seating pin eventually dug into the connecting rod. Over time, it took more and more travel to seat the primer until the handle contacted the body. The later connecting rods where cast of a harder material and lasted much longer.

I had one connecting rod break at the pivot point. I forget if it was one of the soft or hard ones.

All my Auto primes were properly lubricated.

I would have two tools i service at any one time and I would have to buy a replacement about once a year after reloading many thousands of rounds.

Castings as use by Lee in the Auto Prime are inexpensive for a reason. I always considered the failure rate as acceptable, considering the price of the Auto Prime.

I probably have not had a failure of any kind with the Auto Prime in the last 20 years or more. In part, my reloading volumes were reduced, but I can see the parts were better made, the connecting rod for one.

I suspect that folks that have not broken an Auto Prime do not use their Auto Prime much.

 

[jcwit]

I realize that primers are volatile in any system but to segregate that hazard by brand is unusual is it not?

Not really as one brand of primer has a tendency to dust and the other brands do not. Sort of a simple problem of the primer manufacturer.

 

[jcwit]

I suspect that folks that have not broken an Auto Prime do not use their Auto Prime much.

That is a supposition and nothing more. Mine has primed thousand and thousands of rounds, way more than 100,000.

 

[X-Rap]

Not really as one brand of primer has a tendency to dust and the other brands do not. Sort of a simple problem of the primer manufacturer.

100,20,10 to none at all

Those figures come from Lee not me and vary from manufacture to different types made by the same, I know of no other manufacturer that makes that stipulation.

 

[jcwit]

Then Mr. Richard Lee must have a reason for that stipulation as he wrote the book.

 

[cfullgraf]

That is a supposition and nothing more. Mine has primed thousand and thousands of rounds, way more than 100,000.

Not much different than assuming everyone breaking an Auto Prime is crushing it to death and using it improperly.

 

[twofifty]

Ok, I'll admit that Mr. Lee's Auto-Prime design was not foolproof.

 

[X-Rap]

Then Mr. Richard Lee must have a reason for that stipulation as he wrote the book.

Wow looks like a little blind Idolatry for MR. Richard Lee did he send that book down from some mountaintop or was it otherwise divinely inspired? It's obviously chiseled in stone.

 

[wild willy]

I suspect that folks that have not broken an Auto Prime do not use their Auto Prime much.

I don't see how any one could load 100s of thousand with the old softer connecting links after thousands of rounds you can't seat the primer deep enough and mine were greased from day one.Must be another answer

 

[jcwit]

Are you claiming I Idolize Mr. Lee? That sir is an insult.

It is his more that entitled to his opinion as he owned the company producing the products he wrote about.

Being as you have trouble breaking things I don't know what to tell you being as I have not had this problem in all the years and thousands of rounds loaded with said product.

 

[X-Rap]

Call it what you want and I will jump on the band wagon of those who would call BS on that old tool being capable of 100,000's of thousands of cycles. You must have primers that are only half seated but the lever no doubt bottoms out against the body so you won't break it.

 

[jcwit]

You must have primers that are only half seated but the lever no doubt bottoms out against the body so you won't break it.

Nope, not even an issue!