J,
I use the 80/20 model.
80% of the time, trouble, skill, cost is in the last 20% of getting it perfect.
I use the 80/20 model.
80% of the time, trouble, skill, cost is in the last 20% of getting it perfect.
Amateur Knife Making
- Thread starter Mokwepa
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7X57chilmau
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- Dec 9, 2008
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- 687
I can buy that. 6 pages and one new backyard bladesmith one new basement stock remover in the world - so far! This thread makes me happy
J
The day camp my daughter goes to is interested in having one or more of the smiths that put on the ABS Youth Hammer-In spend a day demonstrating and teaching kids what's involved in forging tools and knives.
Perhaps we'll have a couple more new bladesmiths in the world from that.
Perhaps we'll have a couple more new bladesmiths in the world from that.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Zipidee -do-da,
My little blade is grinding nice and sparcking just lile you said it would J !
Got the basic shape and geometry. Drilled the holes for the scales.
Some more grinding, and then some hand filling, mount the scales and fini.
Maybe some time next week I will be done.
My little blade is grinding nice and sparcking just lile you said it would J !
Got the basic shape and geometry. Drilled the holes for the scales.
Some more grinding, and then some hand filling, mount the scales and fini.
Maybe some time next week I will be done.
messerist
Member
Mokwepa looks like you did just fine with your little mishap blade! I said I would post a photo of one of my many redesigns due to failure on my part or the steel's(95% mine). Here is a blade that began life as a skinner but due to a crack that appeared after hardening, turned into a little shorter utility/skinner
Mokwepa
Member
Thanks for all the praise and coments. 17 beers down last night so their aint going to be much progress today. In my drunken stuper last night, I did manage to start a fire at 2am and throw the blade in for annealing. Will at least try to drill the holes for the pins, when i can see straight
Mokwepa
Member
Oh yes, I convinced our chef to give forging a go. Built him a wheel forge and pointed him in the right(if i can call it that) direction. He started last night and i got some pics but nothing great. It put some pics of his first attempt when he makes a bit of progress.
BIKERDOC CAN YOU POST SOME PICS OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING?
BIKERDOC CAN YOU POST SOME PICS OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING?
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bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Will try today if the grandkids give me a few minutes:banghead:
Ok, this isn't fatherly advice (cause I ain't your Daddy), but it comes from someone that's been around forging and smiths for years. If you ever stop respecting the dangers inherent in forging it will maim or kill you. I repeat, this is not kids stuff and if you don't treat every aspect of it with respect you will not only ruin hours and hours of work, but you could end up ruined yourself.
Gonna drink? Stay out of the smithy.
Mokwepa
Member
Coppied loud and clear.
Im not stupid enough to wield a hammer when im in that state.
Going to finish the knife this afternoon. Just a case of straightening, heat treating and tempering then fit the three pins in the tang. Did manage to drill the holes with a bit of effort but its looking good. Ill get a pic of the finished knife soon. Cannot wait to start the next one. Im keen on doing a spear.
Im not stupid enough to wield a hammer when im in that state.
Going to finish the knife this afternoon. Just a case of straightening, heat treating and tempering then fit the three pins in the tang. Did manage to drill the holes with a bit of effort but its looking good. Ill get a pic of the finished knife soon. Cannot wait to start the next one. Im keen on doing a spear.
Mokwepa
Member
Finished the blade, ooooh, nice and sharp. I deccided to leave the blade heat treated black. I think it looks very cool with the dark handle(polished it up). Just have to do the final fit of the handle and sand the pins flush with the wood. I had to heat and straighten and heat treat three times to get the blade straight. I was too nervous heating the blade so i thing the first few times, the steel wasnt hot enough(I have a bad habbit of melting the blade just before its finished. Any tips on keeping the blade straight through the treatment? It has been temperd as well.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Here it is. Needs lots more work but i am going slow and learning.
Mokwepa
Member
Cool Doc.
Youre making progress. I presume that is the handle material, if so what is it? Looks like bone.
Please keep the pictures comming, im curious to follow and learn from other tecniques.
Finished mine today, ill get a pic up tomorrow. Ive got guests for 5 nights so I wont be able to start the new one untill they leave. Im almost certain that im going to do a bowie style knife. I need to figure out how to do the gaurd out of brass though. Anybody have advice on casting one out of brass?
Youre making progress. I presume that is the handle material, if so what is it? Looks like bone.
Please keep the pictures comming, im curious to follow and learn from other tecniques.
Finished mine today, ill get a pic up tomorrow. Ive got guests for 5 nights so I wont be able to start the new one untill they leave. Im almost certain that im going to do a bowie style knife. I need to figure out how to do the gaurd out of brass though. Anybody have advice on casting one out of brass?
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Thanks,
Wood is local maple that I will stain a light maple and seal
Have the leather for a sheath.
Kind of like that I started with a small project, even if by accident.
Final purpose of the knife I have no clue. It is not like I dont own 4 dozen. but It has been fun. However it ends up, I did it! Have along way to go but with my limitations slow and careful thinking is the only way to go.
Doc
Wood is local maple that I will stain a light maple and seal
Have the leather for a sheath.
Kind of like that I started with a small project, even if by accident.
Final purpose of the knife I have no clue. It is not like I dont own 4 dozen. but It has been fun. However it ends up, I did it! Have along way to go but with my limitations slow and careful thinking is the only way to go.
Doc
You can sand cast brass if you can heat it hot enough. Carve your model of the guard out of wax and pack sand with some cement around it or ceramic mold material. Be sure to leave an opening through which you can pour the brass into the void. Void? Yes, once you have your mold set up heat the thing until the wax pours out and then pour the molten brass into the mold. You'll end up getting a generally guard-shaped lump of brass once it cools.
Look up brass casting on the net for detailed instructions.
As to going for a "bowie", don't. You haven't mastered basic technique yet so there's no point jumping to the next level in size. When you've worked out all the problems with 4 or 5 inch blades is when you jump up to 9 or 10 inch blades, not while you're still trying to figure out how to not burn up your blade.
Look up brass casting on the net for detailed instructions.
As to going for a "bowie", don't. You haven't mastered basic technique yet so there's no point jumping to the next level in size. When you've worked out all the problems with 4 or 5 inch blades is when you jump up to 9 or 10 inch blades, not while you're still trying to figure out how to not burn up your blade.
Mokwepa
Member
Ok here it is. Finaly done. The mark on the blade is basically a brand mark from a huge male lion that i knew very well. The Bartia male died last year while doing battle with a buffalo at the ripe old age of 15 (very old for a male lion). He did kill the buffalo but died in the process. Quite a honorable death for such a magnificent lion.
Im sure i could manage a crude bowie. It might be large but ill give it a try. Im not expecting to turn out a masterpiece and if i skrew it up, ill make another. Appart from time, this is probably the cheapest hobby i have. I do have the time to use/waste, im stuck in the middle of the bush for a month at a time.
Silverado6x6
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- Joined
- Mar 23, 2009
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- 195
Mokwepa I have some real respect for what you have done, I am a firm believer that there is on occasions a spiritual bond or spark created when man works with steel. I can handle high end tools like an artist such as operating a milling machine, I can fabricate copies of objects like motor mounts and other items that cross my path in my line of work as a concrete batch plant engineer.
Where I live in Alaska I often have to make my own parts, transplant engines to get the most out of old equipment and basically turn junkyard scrap into working equipment.
Don't ever feel like what you do is substandard, cheap or something that is of amateur quality, thats not what its all about, where I live in the USA its quite common for the idle rich to go out and spend tons of money on bling, like buying a Hummer and then bolting everything they can find on it and then they never use it as it was designed, all its good for is bragging rights.
About 10 years ago I designed high powered LED flashlights, much of my ideas were immediately copied by Chinese contractors and massed produced and flooded the market, I could not compete against that, but what I do nowadays is totally different, I create one-off projects only, always changing and never replicated and so far I have yet to see copycatters. I drive a truck with such unique lighting systems on it I routinely get asked by people where they can buy it, I tell them what was involved and their eyes get all glassy looking when on one such project I told them I cannibalized an LED advertising sign and built it into an extremely bright linear progressive turn signal, running/brake multifunction tail light. By the time I tallied the cost of reworking the tailgate, the lexan, the paint and hours of fitting they just give in and accept that they have no artistic creative talent.
That is what you have right now, that is your spirit so to say extending into your work, keep it up and keep us informed please. This morning I am going to work early I recall I have these huge chunks of worn out material we use inside the huge concrete mixing machine, they look like ploughs but are really hard wearing, I am thinking of making an anvil out of one.
I also have cast off grader blades, loader bucket steel and lots of hard surface metal dies that are used in our concrete block making plant.
I am looking forward to making my own forge and getting into this as well, here in Alaska big knives are actually needed, tough knives to skin moose.
Where I live in Alaska I often have to make my own parts, transplant engines to get the most out of old equipment and basically turn junkyard scrap into working equipment.
Don't ever feel like what you do is substandard, cheap or something that is of amateur quality, thats not what its all about, where I live in the USA its quite common for the idle rich to go out and spend tons of money on bling, like buying a Hummer and then bolting everything they can find on it and then they never use it as it was designed, all its good for is bragging rights.
About 10 years ago I designed high powered LED flashlights, much of my ideas were immediately copied by Chinese contractors and massed produced and flooded the market, I could not compete against that, but what I do nowadays is totally different, I create one-off projects only, always changing and never replicated and so far I have yet to see copycatters. I drive a truck with such unique lighting systems on it I routinely get asked by people where they can buy it, I tell them what was involved and their eyes get all glassy looking when on one such project I told them I cannibalized an LED advertising sign and built it into an extremely bright linear progressive turn signal, running/brake multifunction tail light. By the time I tallied the cost of reworking the tailgate, the lexan, the paint and hours of fitting they just give in and accept that they have no artistic creative talent.
That is what you have right now, that is your spirit so to say extending into your work, keep it up and keep us informed please. This morning I am going to work early I recall I have these huge chunks of worn out material we use inside the huge concrete mixing machine, they look like ploughs but are really hard wearing, I am thinking of making an anvil out of one.
I also have cast off grader blades, loader bucket steel and lots of hard surface metal dies that are used in our concrete block making plant.
I am looking forward to making my own forge and getting into this as well, here in Alaska big knives are actually needed, tough knives to skin moose.
Silverado6x6
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2009
- Messages
- 195
I am passing on this article because I am going to build this, I have absolutely everything needed already lying around at my shop, we use pneumatic cylinders a lot and I have various controls, I may have to buy a footswitch though. I see nothing wrong with using a hammer and anvil but I do not have an anvil, I do have something I can build that would simulate it.
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f57/home-made-air-hammer-944/
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f57/home-made-air-hammer-944/
Silverado6x6,
Contact Ron Claiborn at 2928 Ellistown Rd, Knoxville, tn, 37924 and I bet he'd be happy to share plans for forging presses and power hammers with you. Ron builds some nice equipment, but you're far enough away that he'd probably just work with you to get what you want.
Contact Ron Claiborn at 2928 Ellistown Rd, Knoxville, tn, 37924 and I bet he'd be happy to share plans for forging presses and power hammers with you. Ron builds some nice equipment, but you're far enough away that he'd probably just work with you to get what you want.
Mokwepa
Member
Silverado, looks good. Wish i had access to cool machinery and parts. Hammer will have to do for now. Keep us posted with what youre up to and what you end up making in the knife department.
Going to do some research on basic damuscas, think its going to be too involved for my hammer.
Going to do some research on basic damuscas, think its going to be too involved for my hammer.
theotherwaldo
Member
Hey, don't worry about competing with the pros. Don't get hung up on all the equipment.
Just keep taking what you have and making what you want.
Just keep learning.
Just keep taking what you have and making what you want.
Just keep learning.
7X57chilmau
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 687
Mokwepa! Looks great! I'm on vacation this week, this is the first (maybe last) time I've had to sit at a computer since Friday... But that knife actually came out really nice looking.
Bikerdoc, yours is comin' along too! The point has a real SAK shape to it, eh? Should be a nice little user.
Hso, I hope your hammerin' camps do produce a few. One day, we'd be a sorry bunch if these basic techniques were lost.
I try to get friends out to my forge all the time. Have limited success, even with offers of "we can make a knife in one day, any way you like, and you can keep it". The few that do come out get a little speach on the rules. All odd numbered rules are the same. "Sometimes, black steel is hot too." They look funny at me after the third time.
Usually, it's about 3 hours later when they pick something up and smoke curls from their leather gloves..... Then they understand.
J
Bikerdoc, yours is comin' along too! The point has a real SAK shape to it, eh? Should be a nice little user.
Hso, I hope your hammerin' camps do produce a few. One day, we'd be a sorry bunch if these basic techniques were lost.
I try to get friends out to my forge all the time. Have limited success, even with offers of "we can make a knife in one day, any way you like, and you can keep it". The few that do come out get a little speach on the rules. All odd numbered rules are the same. "Sometimes, black steel is hot too." They look funny at me after the third time.
Usually, it's about 3 hours later when they pick something up and smoke curls from their leather gloves..... Then they understand.
J
We had a group of Boy Scouts from Oak Ridge show up at the Youth Hammer-In to look. I got tagged to talk to them and being the safety geek I asked what temp do the smiths work the steel at and got a quick answer from a couple. I then asked what temp the steel turned red and got a couple of answers. I then set the hook and asked what temp will burn you and one answered correctly. "So you can get burned well below the temperature that you can see the steel is hot, correct?" You could almost see the "ah-hah" light bulbs above their heads. No one is stupid enough to grab red steel but plenty of folks will grab gray/black steel and leave lovely grill marks on their paws.
The most prominent piece of first aid equipment I insist on at these things is a 5 gallon bucket filled with ice and water. Any time any kid gets the least little bit of heat they plunge the wounded part in the bucket and keep it there until they can't feel the burn any more. We had 4 kids in the bucket this year, but not a one blistered.
The most prominent piece of first aid equipment I insist on at these things is a 5 gallon bucket filled with ice and water. Any time any kid gets the least little bit of heat they plunge the wounded part in the bucket and keep it there until they can't feel the burn any more. We had 4 kids in the bucket this year, but not a one blistered.
Silverado6x6
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2009
- Messages
- 195
I have to fabricate a lot of equipment from scrap up here in Alaska being that it costs too much to have something shipped up here and on almost every occasion when I have some project that required a lot of heat from torching or welding there is always one of the employees or usually one of the two owners walk right into my shop and pick the darn thing up! A person could get rich to make a handy thermo sensitive indicator like a warning magnet that flashes when heat is detected.
Anyway I am not trying to hijack a thread here but I got to tinkering around at 6am this morning at work, I grabbed an old but new very large Timken roller bearing race and took it outside to my big traveling carbide cutoff saw we use for rebar and heavy iron and sliced it in half, I think it went to an older style rear axle of a concrete mixer, so I then got it orange and with one end in the vice and the other in a pipe wrench I slowly straightened it, of course it curved.
No biggee, I think, I'll just get it hot again and start whackin away with my short handled small shop sledge, turns out this steel may be 52100, its like 62 Rockwell, duh! My newest file barely scratches it. ITS A BEARING RACE! It does NOT like to be beaten on and fights every hammer blow, I was keeping the heat low because I'm no dummy and I have broken bearing races because they are brittle but I was thinking what an awesome edge it would have after I normalized it straight, had to clarify what normalizing 52100 involved, its rather finicky and needs a three step process with consecutive lower heats, minimal heats in between.
Makes me drool for that laser handheld pyrometer at out hardware store, so just a couple of hours ago I posted all this on a knife making forum, the regs say this steel is NOT for a beginner, too hard to work with, thats OK with me but after many pages of browsing I find that this very steel is highly sought after as long as it real 52100, apparently some races don't have enough in it, I think a large industrial Timken bearing should have the right steel so I have a straight piece now thats about 1 1/2" wide and about 10" long, its thicker on one side, its a roller bearing race of course, thats not bad I think as this will make a nice strong heavy survival type of knife, I wish I could make it a bit longer for the tang, next time I will only cut another race once. I may just weld a piece of mild steel flat stock to it and have that in the handle, I have some incredibly strong welding rod and as long as I make a zig-zag weld it should be strong I guess.
I absolutely need an anvil for this, I have my eye on some stuff in the yard that should work, they look like chunky plows, they were inside a concrete mixing machine. I have a 4 1/2" Hitachi hand grinder and tons of discs for it plus my little 4" Makita I usually keep 24 grit sanding discs on, I also have a small 1" belt sander but its kinda wore out, tomorrow I'm shopping for a 2x42 at Sears.
Anyway I am not trying to hijack a thread here but I got to tinkering around at 6am this morning at work, I grabbed an old but new very large Timken roller bearing race and took it outside to my big traveling carbide cutoff saw we use for rebar and heavy iron and sliced it in half, I think it went to an older style rear axle of a concrete mixer, so I then got it orange and with one end in the vice and the other in a pipe wrench I slowly straightened it, of course it curved.
No biggee, I think, I'll just get it hot again and start whackin away with my short handled small shop sledge, turns out this steel may be 52100, its like 62 Rockwell, duh! My newest file barely scratches it. ITS A BEARING RACE! It does NOT like to be beaten on and fights every hammer blow, I was keeping the heat low because I'm no dummy and I have broken bearing races because they are brittle but I was thinking what an awesome edge it would have after I normalized it straight, had to clarify what normalizing 52100 involved, its rather finicky and needs a three step process with consecutive lower heats, minimal heats in between.
Makes me drool for that laser handheld pyrometer at out hardware store, so just a couple of hours ago I posted all this on a knife making forum, the regs say this steel is NOT for a beginner, too hard to work with, thats OK with me but after many pages of browsing I find that this very steel is highly sought after as long as it real 52100, apparently some races don't have enough in it, I think a large industrial Timken bearing should have the right steel so I have a straight piece now thats about 1 1/2" wide and about 10" long, its thicker on one side, its a roller bearing race of course, thats not bad I think as this will make a nice strong heavy survival type of knife, I wish I could make it a bit longer for the tang, next time I will only cut another race once. I may just weld a piece of mild steel flat stock to it and have that in the handle, I have some incredibly strong welding rod and as long as I make a zig-zag weld it should be strong I guess.
I absolutely need an anvil for this, I have my eye on some stuff in the yard that should work, they look like chunky plows, they were inside a concrete mixing machine. I have a 4 1/2" Hitachi hand grinder and tons of discs for it plus my little 4" Makita I usually keep 24 grit sanding discs on, I also have a small 1" belt sander but its kinda wore out, tomorrow I'm shopping for a 2x42 at Sears.
Mokwepa
Member
Be very carefull welding on the tang. Even though you might have strong rods, you are still going to have to heat up good and proper for heat treatment. The different steel densities are going to expand and contract at different rates and more than likely crack. The welds on tough steel tend to crack next to the weld and not on the weld. Im far from an expert but even a spot weld on my last knife went bad on me. Make a shorter, one piece for now, at least you will know its solid and strong right through from tip to butt cap.
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