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American gun owner fined $5000 in Canada

Discussion in 'Legal' started by TIZReporter, Aug 26, 2006.

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  1. TIZReporter

    TIZReporter Member

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    Judge lashes out at tourist over guns and lying to border

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2006/08/26/1777646-sun.html

    Judge lashes out at tourist over guns and lying to border guards

    By PAUL TURENNE AND BOB HOLLIDAY, SUN MEDIA
    Sat, August 26, 2006

    WINNIPEG -- An American tourist who lied to customs officers in
    Emerson,
    Man., about having loaded handguns in his motorhome - including a
    "Saturday night special"- was given $6,500 in fines and a tongue
    lashing
    from a Winnipeg judge earlier this week.

    Delmer Tibbits, a 65-year-old South Carolina man, tried to enter Canada
    at the Emerson border crossing Tuesday morning. He and his wife had
    just
    finished visiting their son in Grand Forks and were thinking of driving
    their old GMC bus, which had been converted to an RV, across Canada and
    into New England.

    But Tibbits ran into problems when border guards asked him if he had
    any
    weapons.

    He was asked at least three times if he had firearms and each time he
    said no.

    But when officers searched his RV, they found three loaded handguns in
    a
    closet: a .22-calibre Ruger and .357-calibre Ruger, both of which are
    restricted in Canada, and a .25-calibre FIE Titan, which is prohibited
    altogether north of the border.

    "You knew pretty darned quickly that you were lying and you just kept
    up
    the lie. You were given many opportunities to come clean and you just
    kept up digging yourself in deeper," said Judge Sid Lerner, who at a
    hearing Wednesday in Winnipeg handed Tibbits a $5,000 fine and tacked
    on
    a $1,500 civil penalty to get his RV back after the man pleaded guilty
    to one count of smuggling.

    Tibbits was held in jail Tuesday night and was kicked out of Canada
    after his court appearance. His guns were seized and destroyed.
     
  2. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Idiot.

    He's lucky they didn't lock him up for an extended period.
     
  3. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    I have read of guys getting busted for having a few loose rounds in their trunk.:cuss:
     
  4. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Member

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    Not in Canada. Mexico maybe. As recently as 5 years ago there were no restrictions on taking ammo into Canada.

    I taken 3000++ rounds in myself, just because I'm too lazy to take the range ammo in from my truck.

    Of course, I always declared it if/when asked.
     
  5. Geno

    Geno Member

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    What can I say?

    Well, I could say a lot. Wisedom? Didn't come with his age. now, if he had tried this in old Mexico...oh no! He would be rotting in jail. I can't say that I feel sorry for him.

    Doc2005
     
  6. Euclidean

    Euclidean Member

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    First, okay, shame on him for lying, but that's not the real issue.

    You're all missing the point, no government has the right to take away the rights of a human being to defend themselves. They have no business asking the question in the first place.

    As a rational human being, I have the right to be armed to protect myself regardless of who is in charge. My rights come from my being, not from a piece of paper with some words written on it endorsed by the king of whatever place I am in. It matters not where I am, the depths of space included.

    No one is obligated morally to follow any such law, however I will agree that he acted foolishly in not considering the consequences of his actions and I've no sympathy for him.

    I am outraged that the Canadian authorities would even ask such a question, because no one is obligated to answer it, which makes me wonder if the American authorities ask a similar question of Canadians coming into the U.S. If so, I need to write some letters, because it would be silly to get mad at foreigners for doing such a thing if my country does it too. I wonder if anyone can tell me if this is the case? I'd never even considered it before.
     
  7. SigfanUSAF

    SigfanUSAF Member

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    All I can say is:
    I used to live in a Maine bordertown. The legal drinking age in New Brunswick was 19. Guess where all us 19 and 20 year olds went? We always had a DD (not Drunk Driver btw) and honestly never tried to carry guns over the border. I must say I'm glad, because in a two year period, me and my friends were delayed 1 to 2 hours a half a dozen times at the border while the RCMP detail search our vehicles. When they were done, after not finding anything, we tried to put the cars back together and head on to the clubs. Funny, we never once got either an "I'm sorry" or a "F*** YOU", just "OK now, you boys have a good night now, ay". Note that this was a pre-9/11 world, and only happened going in. Could've smuggled a darn elephant back into Maine.
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Moral of story: stay the !@#$%^&*! out of socialist countries.
     
  9. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    Can't say I feel sorry for him. The judge was right -- he was given multiple opportunities to come clean.

    I don't agree with Canada's stance on weapons, but it's their country and their laws. I don't take my motorhome across the border for the same reason -- too many firearms inside. When my wife and I decided to visit Canada, we parked the coach in Maine and took the Moto-Guzzi for a 900 mile ride through New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. Had a great time 'till the last day, when it rained like the proverbial cow on the flat rock. :eek:
     
  10. proud2deviate

    proud2deviate Member

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    $6500? In Canadia??

    That's like $23.50 in the US, ain't it?

    ;)
     
  11. baz

    baz Member

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    I'm appalled, of course, at the attitude of the Canadian government, but given the variation in local laws and ordnances, even in this country, anyone traveling with guns who does not check out the laws before they go somewhere is stupid. To lie about it was to be stuck on stupid.

    I wonder what would have happened if he'd said "Yes, I have some guns, why, are they not allowed in Canada?" Would he have been allowed to turn around and go home, guns intact?
     
  12. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    If they let me out and threw me back home before making me pay, they would never see that $6500. Maybe a letter with a picture of my middle finger, but no money.

    Or, maybe a letter directed to the judge that said 'You got three of mine, but I have plenty more.' Then given HER a tongue lashing.
     
  13. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    More like about $6,000

    The exchange rate has gotten almost back to what it was when I was a kid (a looooooooong time ago). Back then, the Canadian quarter was worth 26 cents American, and in Maine Canadian and American currency were freely exchanged at face value, as if there was no rate of exchange.
     
  14. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    I often see people in Internet gun forums advocate breaking laws like that one. Almost invariably they talk about a higher law and usually say "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

    In this case Delmer Tibbits followed that advice, was judged by one instead of twelve, and was assessed a $6,500 fine after he pleaded guilty to a charge of smuggling. If smuggling is considered a felony, Delmar probably will not be able to own or possess firearms lawfully for the rest of his life.
     
  15. Creeping Incrementalism

    Creeping Incrementalism Member

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    Do Canadian border police make it a regular habit to search all vehicles coming across their border?
     
  16. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    Even if the smuggling charge is considered to be a misdemeanor, he's got a record that will get him a detail search every time he crosses any international border.

    Given he was in a vehicle from a state in the US known for having favorable gun laws, he was probably certain to be searched. Canadian border guards probably have a point system to trigger searches in the absence of obvious red flags. South Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia plates, for example, get higher points than Maryland, Massachusetts, or California. RV's get more than sedans, etc.


    Ever tried to get out of paying a government? I wouldn't be surprised to find that the US government has a reciprocal agreement with the Canadian government-you collect from Canadians for me and I'll collect from Americans for you. You try your little tricks and find your house being auctioned by the sheriff. Come to find out the FBI considers your cute photo to be "assault on a foreign official" that could be evidence of terrorism.

    When you decide to snap at a government, friend, you'd best either be a mighty big dog or one that is mighty hard to find.
     
  17. jashobeam

    jashobeam Member

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    A friend told me this story about his experience at the Canadian border. Apparently, the customs agents when inspecting a vehicle are permitted to search inside any ONE bag that is readily accessible (if your trunk is filled with duffel bags or suitcases they can examine one of the ones on top, but not dig down and select one from the bottom of the pile). The bag they selected from my friend's car contained his fishing tackle--and a loaded magazine for a Sig pistol. They asked him where his gun was. Though he insisted that he did not bring his pistol, they continued to search. They went through every bag and searched the entire vehicle. Next they told him that if he did not tell them where he was hiding his handgun they were going to completely dismantle his car. They also said that they would not provide him with any tools to reassemble the vehicle. He swore up and down that he did not have the gun with him. They decided to terminate their search and told my friend that he would be free to leave once he paid them $300 to get his car out of impound. He did not have that much cash and they would not take credit cards. They made him walk back into the US to the nearest town to obtain cash.

    He also said that his wife, because she admitted to having a DUI conviction, was strip-searched, interrogated, and told that DUI convicts are not allowed to enter Canada.

    From: http://www.liddles.com/374.html
    DUI Charges and Other Issues

     
  18. tellner

    tellner member

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    He lied. He was breaking the law and he knew it. Screw him. He got off easy.

    "No government has the right"? Maybe not according to your philosophy or religion, but if you're interested in real governments and real history, then they do have the right to make their own rules. If you enter another country you either abide by their rules, stay home, or expect to get punished.
     
  19. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    To those of you who uphold the law, no matter how inane the law is, where do YOU personally draw the line and do you ever break the law?

    Do you speed? Ever run a red light? Walk you dog off lease where restricted? Own a "restricted" firearm? Give one of your perscription painkiller pills to someone else?

    Just curious?

    Vote with your dollars and NEVER willingly support nations and states with laws that you disagree with.
     
  20. tellner

    tellner member

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    Nice try leadcounsel, but no cylindrical tobacco product.

    This isn't a heroic act of civil disobedience against tyranny. It's an arrogant, lying jerk who thinks other countries' laws don't apply to him on their soil. He deserves no sympathy from us.
     
  21. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Nope!:)

    I have also found that "attitude" has a lot to do with getting through a border station without trouble. (Yours, not the agent's)) Come on like an ass and they will treat you like one. Start spouting off about your "rights" and they will demonstrate their "rights".
    Also, as pointed out in another thread somewhere, by the time you get to the Canadian border station,you are already on Canadian soil and have already broken Canadian law if you have an illegal (by Canadian standards) firearm. They have every (Canadian) right to confiscate it and fine you.

    Dean
     
  22. SigfanUSAF

    SigfanUSAF Member

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    As per my previous post on this matter, neither me nor my friends ever got arguementative or hostile with the border guards. Every time they searched us they weren't really being rude either. Maybe 5 guys hanging out of a Cutlas made them nervous???????
     
  23. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Last time I checked Canada is a sovereign nation.
     
  24. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    "Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?"


    "Oh Heavens no! I hate those awful things." :D
     
  25. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I am curious why he was specifically asked three times, then searched anyways. Is that standard procedure, or could they tell by gestures and expressions that he was lying about a firearm and gave him three opportunities to admit it?

    I've heard plenty of Canadian border hassle on both sides (Americans harassing Canadians, Canadians harassing Americans). That's just the way it goes now I guess. Anyhow if you're going to enter someone else's country, you're going to have to follow their rules since it isn't your house anymore...or just not go.
     
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