Amish man sues to buy firearm without photo ID in gun rights, religious freedom suit

[KansasSasquatch]

The thing is it doesn't cost anything to vote, so adding the cost of a photo ID made it absolutely impossible to mandate people have photo ID's to vote. Buying a gun on the other hand costs money; even the cheapest guns at least $120. I imagine that the argument will be that if you can afford to buy a $120 gun, you can afford X amount to buy an ID.

If the system is going to be designed so that if you want to buy something to exercise your rights, be it second amendment for guns/ammo or ninth amendment for alcohol/tobacco you are required to show photo ID, then there needs to be a law passed that government provide every citizen with a free photo ID.

At that point, if everyone has access to photo identification, then there is no merit to the Supreme Court's ruling that it is unconstitutional to ask for photo ID at voting booths.

I'm not sure if ALL states require photo I.D. to vote. I know Kansas passed the Safe And Fair Elections (SAFE) law and it took effect in 2012. It requires a valid photo I.D. to vote. Our Secretary of State knew it was likely to be challenged in court so there's a pretty long list of I.D.'s that are accepted. On that list are a few very low cost options. There's also simple ways that a couple of them can be obtained for free. So we do require I.D. to vote, but there's no "poll tax" via a requirement to pay for I.D.

 

[yugorpk]

Unfortunately, the only chart that the US currently ranks high on (#1, top of the chart!) is the incarceration rate chart. We imprison a larger percentage of our citizens than any other country in the world (US = 700 per 100k, Russia = 450, China = 165, etc, etc). With a greater percentage of our population held prisoner by the government than any other country in the world, it seems strange to think that we're "really free" compared to other countries.

If those people in those US prisons would stop stealing things, assaulting and killing people and stop selling illegal drugs that destroy lives and kill people we wouldn't have the largest per capita prison population in the world. Place the blame where it belongs.You have the freedom in this country to be honorable and wealthy if you work hard. You do not have the right to infringe upon the success of others.

 

[RPRNY]

Why does an Amish man want to own a piece of modern technology? Doesn't that go against their religion? So he has no problem going against his religion in certain ways but not in other ways?

Amish Mafia. Duh.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I,would think a note from his elders stating he is who he says he is and in good standing in his community should work.

 

[goon]

Actually, I'd rather have the carbine. ohhhhhhhhh burn. NOW it's a party! lol

I'd also like to own a Carbine. But you asked about an AR, and the answer is yes (as you probably know.)


On the Amish guy, I can sympathize with him, but the odds are that if he wants a new Tavor, Uncle Sam is probably going to make him have his photo taken. I'm of the opinion that if we can force a Muslim woman to have a photo ID sans hijab or veil to get on a plane, then the Amish guy is probably just going to have to suck it up and deal too.

We all should be one way or the other. No favortism shown to one faith over any other.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

It would be good to see this guy win this but I think if I were him I'd just buy a used gun private sale and be done with it. No photo ID required.

From the moment I started reading this thread that was my thought.
Unless of course the libs fix the "gun show loophole"

 

[45_auto]

If those people in those US prisons would stop stealing things, assaulting and killing people and stop selling illegal drugs that destroy lives and kill people we wouldn't have the largest per capita prison population in the world.

Interesting theory. You believe that the only people in jail are thieves, thugs, murderers and illegal drug dealers? If so, do you have any thoughts on why a higher percentage of US citizens are thieves, thugs, murderers and illegal drug dealers than the citizens of every other country? No possibility that the government might have some more oppressive laws (less freedom) than other countries therefore putting more people in jail? Have you ever read the "Patriot Act"?

You do not have the right to infringe upon the success of others.

Some strange thoughts on this thread. I guess I never got the word when they passed the law against competition. Do you have a whole bunch of "participant" trophies by any chance?

Isn't the right to infringe upon other's success pretty much the whole basis of the capitalistic system? As far as I know, if I can do your job or business better or faster or cheaper (or all three) than you, I have every right to infringe upon your success as much as possible.

You believe that big box stores like Wal-Mart or Cabelas, or internet businesses like Bud's Gun Shop or Amazon, are illegal because they can sell stuff cheaper and infringe upon the success of local small businesses who can't match their low prices?

Very confusing. More laws = more people in prison = more freedom?
You can't open a business that infringes upon others success?
I'm pretty sure that in the Constitution that I studied that there is no right to success.
As I said, strange thoughts. And this is a very right wing forum. No wonder this country is so conflicted.

 

[barnbwt]

"I guess I never got the word when they passed the law against competition"
Uh, drug laws? Plenty of commerce going on in those 'hoods, just not the kind we care for. Also, drug criminals do make up a good portion of inmates, especially the non violent offenders.

"If so, do you have any thoughts on why a higher percentage of US citizens are thieves, thugs, murderers and illegal drug dealers than the citizens of every other country?"
Seeing as they aren't burning bodies in drums of gasoline with the cops' blessing, I'd say they are nowhere near as bad as in other countries. I would argue that our more vigorous enforcement is a reason for this, and also explains why incarceration rates are higher (a totally independent situation from the rightness or wrongness of the laws being enforced)

The real root cause is policies in the dense urban areas that have made legitimate commerce impossible for folks on the ground floor over the past decades. We hear the old chestnut about how "guns are more easy to come by than broccoli," to which I ask, "and how do they compare to legal emloyment?"

Make it easy to open/run a business without paying off half the city (taxes, zoning, unions, political bribes) and they will come; because there's money to be made if people can afford drugs and firearms.

TCB

 

[bobg67]

A man i worked with owns property that butts up to Amish owned land. He said they shoot deer year round and no one bothers them. I sure can't do that.
I have driven down the road the Amish live on. They drive their buggies down the middle of the road and to hell with any cars coming. Let them abide by the same laws i have to. That includes buying a gun.

 

[yugorpk]

How many "Patriot Act" violators are in jail right now? I wouldnt say zero because someone will drag out a case or two that actually went to trial but suffice to say that the Patriot Act , like 922r and most gun laws is a feel good, do nothing law that puts almost no one behind bars.

Yes, almost all of the people in our jaisl are there because they deserve it. Some slip through the cracks but that happens everywhere. The people in our jails are there because they have victimized someone. They are thieves, rapists, murderers , assaulters, and spare me the bit about drug dealing being a victimless crime. Almost all of the the laws we have on the books here are no different in substance and in many case less stringent than you will find in most other western democracies. We might have better police enforcing our laws. Debatable. We certainly have different demographics. We have more people in our jails because our people commit more crimes. Thats the gist of it. We have a vast uneducated and/or unmotivated shadow population who would rather steal from or otherwise victimize the rest of us than make their own honest way in the world.

 

[45_auto]

We might have better police enforcing our laws.

We have more people in our jails because our people commit more crimes. Thats the gist of it. We have a vast uneducated and/or unmotivated shadow population who would rather steal from or otherwise victimize the rest of us than make their own honest way in the world.

Thank you for explaining it so clearly.

Hard to believe that we have so many problems and the solution is so simple. Just keep up what we're doing putting all those uneducated and unmotivated people in jail. Perhaps an effective solution would be to fund more law enforcement and give them military type weapons and vehicles (we could give them black uniforms and call them Special Services (SS for short) or something similar) and build gas chambers instead of jails. Oops, I see that was tried about 75 years ago and didn't work out too well. Guess we'll just have to stay with the militarized law enforcement, and keep making laws to enable us to stick those uneducated and unmotivated people in jails till they're all gone.

Do you believe the US Census Bureau and the FBI reports that show that although blacks and latinos only make up 30% of the US population, and they use and sell drugs at the same rate as whites, they make up 60% of the population incarcerated for drug offenses?

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Do you have any suggestions on how we can get those uneducated and unmotivated members of our society to stop committing the crime of being black or latino?

 

[Sam1911]

We have more people in our jails because our people commit more crimes. Thats the gist of it.

Ooohkay then. I think an argument could be made that our criminal system is more productive than that of most other places, much more efficient and effective at arresting and convicting people of the various violations they do commit. Not that our citizens commit fewer crimes than those of a lot of other developed nations. And I'd say that an almost equally compelling reasons, besides reducing law-enforcement ineptitude and ambivalence to crime, is the fact that we've all but completely eliminated bribery and nepotism/favoritism from our justice system, so if you break the law, and you're caught, you're at least going to trail and will gain a criminal record and will at least see the inside of a jail for a little while, and hence will be in our statistics. MANY other places in the world could not possibly make such a claim, honestly/believably.

But look, this has gone way off the path. (And yeah, dangit, I'm doing it too! )

Until there is an update on the Amish fellow and we find out what the court decides, I'm going to close this.