Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ammo ID bill ?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by glove, Nov 26, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. glove

    glove Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    543
    Location:
    Richfield, Ohio
  2. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Yes they are. However, it would likely be struck down in Federal court because the ability to regulate interstate commerce is the domain of Congress alone. And since even one state's passing would have widespread effects on commerce, it is almost certainly unconstitutional on face value.
     
  3. MGshaggy

    MGshaggy Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    515
    Sorry, but wrong on the IC issue. It doesn't discriminate against other state's commerce, doesn't hinder an overarching federal regulatory scheme (or encroach upon an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction) and is an issue squarely within a state's police powers. It has other major problems, but IC is not one of them.
     
  4. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Actually you're wrong. The interstate commerce clause can be invoked because it directly affects businesses (ammunition producers) in another state. A state could pass a law saying ammunition producers in-state must encode, but they would be on shaky legal ground to try to enforce this on ammo coming in from another state.

    Congress's right to regulate interstate commerce is VERY powerful. It has been used in the past to force hotels to integrate, for instance, on the grounds that it affects travelers from other states. This is a much more cut-and-dried measure as it affects out-of-state businesses by forcing them to produce ammunition to local specifications or be barred from selling their products in the state. Such undue burdens on interstate commerce clearly infringe upon Congress's territory.
     
  5. Sinixstar

    Sinixstar member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    897
    Eh - not so much as you might think.
    All they have to do is say "any ammo coming into this state must meet these requirements...."
    If there's companies out there that meet those requirements, they can bring ammo into the state for resale, if not - well, that's their choice.
    You're not forcing companies from other states to ONLY sell the ammo you want, you're just saying they can only sell certain ammo in your state.
     
  6. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    The companies that produce ammunition have a LOT of money and a LOT of legal clout. Believe me.
     
  7. gregormeister

    gregormeister Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Sure, and are they gonna get all the ammo accountability at the flea markets, yard sales and swap meets?
     
  8. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    5,810
    Location:
    Northern California
    no,it'll be just another charge to tack on if they bust you for something else.They just want you to shoot up all your reserve ammo.
     
  9. moi_self26

    moi_self26 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    and hand-loaded shells?
     
  10. MGshaggy

    MGshaggy Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    515
    Sorry Mike, but you need to read up on more CC cases. The IC clause provides Congress authority to stick its nose in almost any area they want to under the aegis of "regulating interstate commerce". That said, it does not preclude a state from legislating or regulating in an area which could also be regulated by the federal government under the IC clause. A state can use its police powers to regulate commerce within that state so long as it does not discrimintate against commerce from other states, place an undue burden on interstate commerce, or interfere with a larger federal regulatory program (There are exceptions to that, however, such as where the state is a market marticipant). For example, if state A passed that ammo ID law for out of state companies, but did not apply it to ammo companies within the state, there would be a dormant commerce clause problem. As long as they applied the same standard for encoded ammo to both in-state producers and retailers as well as producers and retailers of ammo from other states (for ammo entering state A), there would be no commerce clause problem.
     
  11. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    The problem is that it WOULD place an undue burden on interstate commerce by forcing suppliers to make expensive changes to production methods just to satisfy the laws of that state. Because of this, it applies.
     
  12. MGshaggy

    MGshaggy Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    515
    There's a technical term for that in legal/financial circles. Its known as "tough luck". Increased costs due to state legislation which does not unduly burden IC is not a constitutional issue. There's no unconstitutional burden, or discriminatory effect, because it applies to ALL producers bringing ammo into the jurisdiction of that state. Increased costs to comply with a particuar states law sucks, but its not necessarily a dormant commerce clause problem. There's a fair amount of CC cases on the books, but I defy you to cite a SCOTUS case to support your position.

    Understand, almost anything a state may do has some nexus to, and effect on, interstate commerce. Its only when it discriminates against other states is it usually a problem. The fact interstate commerce may be used as a basis of authority for congressional action in almost any situation, is not a bar to state action, so long as it doesn't implicate the dormant commerce clause.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  13. everallm

    everallm Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,504
    The real issue isn't whether the law as passed would break interstate commerce rules. The law has been bent to fit a bewildering variety of politically inspired needs.

    It's whether the federal government would deign to challenge it under IC rules......Which in the current climate would be very unlikely.
     
  14. ants

    ants Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,710
    Link not current info?

    Before you get too upset about the link, it's not current. Much of the legislation tracked on the link was introduced in various states' 2008 legislatures, which have now closed their sessions. A few bills may still be active, but the ones I viewed are dead unless carried over or until reintroduced in 2009.
     
  15. cpaspr

    cpaspr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Oregon
    If it were to pass

    the ammo companies could simply pull a Ronnie Barrett move. "Sorry, your requirements are too costly for us. We won't be selling any of our product in your state. We hope your police and national guard units are real good at hand to hand combat and with slingshots, because we won't be selling any ammo to them."
     
  16. devilc

    devilc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Lorton, VA
    It is almost shocking that we have not seen a special ammo tax.
    Wait for it.
     
  17. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,966
  18. crazy-mp

    crazy-mp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    Missouri
    If they could not regulate your reloads they would probally make it illegal.:cuss:
     
  19. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,572
    Location:
    illinois
    Why couldn't they get away with it? They get away with banning "high cap" mags and 50 cals, that all affects IC too. What a mess.
     
  20. TEDDY

    TEDDY Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    884
    Location:
    MANNING SC
    ammo

    thanks Dryhumor:I needed that bill as I called Kathy Havins office and they could not find it.It seems to be in ano. of states.unbelievable but Mass turned it down.:rolleyes:I wonder if the tide is turning.course they voted it in in cali I believe.:rolleyes::uhoh::confused:
     
  21. hayes1966

    hayes1966 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    CT threw this out .. at least this year no doubt it will be back in another format.
     
  22. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,966
    Judging from a couple of recent threads about being unable to get ammo sent in to New Jersey, it would seem that somethings going on up there.

    Anyone know?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page