Ammo To Cali

Discussion in 'Legal' started by 264swedmoor, Jul 15, 2021.

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  1. 264swedmoor

    264swedmoor Member

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    CA requires ammo to be shipped to an FFL. Can someone with a CA COE and a C&R FFL (type 03) take possession of ammunition directly via an online sale -or- must that transaction occur at another FFL?

    I called the CA Bureau of Firearms. Their answer was that it had to ship to an FFL. I pointed out that a C&R FFL is an FFL and asked for guidance specifically excluding a type 03. Their answer was that they could not find it but that they "know it's the case." They also pointed me to CA Penal Code 30314. But that seems to fly in the face of what he told me on the phone while we were both reading this statute...

    (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312 .

    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

    (1) An ammunition vendor.

    (2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830 ) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer's duties.

    (3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921 ) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

    (4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450 ) of Chapter 6 of Division 6.

    (5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921 ) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710 .

    (6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720 .

    (c) A violation of this section is an infraction for any first time offense, and either an infraction or a misdemeanor for any subsequent offense.


    Now, (b)(5) seems to indicates that a COE holder and a licensed collector pursuant to US Code Title 18, Chapter 44, section 923 (b):

    (b) Any person desiring to be licensed as a collector shall file an application for such license with the Attorney General. The application shall be in such form and contain only that information necessary to determine eligibility as the Attorney General shall by regulation prescribe. The fee for such license shall be $10 per year. Any license granted under this subsection shall only apply to transactions in curios and relics.

    So, can an out of state ammo supplier ship ammo directly to a California COE with a FFL Type 03?
     
  2. danez71

    danez71 Member

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  3. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    This is an interesting question.
    My cursory examination of the requirements for that CA COE have to be met first.
    Which does pose an open question of whether the actual regulators will allow an 03 that permission. I'll wager they allow 02 (Pawn Brokers).
    Where it gets sticky is that they may require COE to have "premises" to be issued the paperwork.
     
  4. 264swedmoor

    264swedmoor Member

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    I called the CA DOJ firearms group again and walked them through the my reading of the rule. They read the statute with me real-time and concluded that a CA resident is good to go with a valid COE and valid FFL03 per exception 30312(b)(5).
     
    danez71 likes this.
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    This can't be answered here as none of us are the CA regulator. All you'll get is opinions from people that can't make a ruling.

    You need a written interpretation of regulation from CA specifically addressing your question.
     
  6. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    ???
    Or he could click in the link I provided in post #2 to the CA AG which contains all the associated Penal Codes that spell it out.
     
  7. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    Yes.

    A CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid CA DOJ COE is exempt from CA ammunition laws.
    Which means they can legally:
    1. Acquire ammunition from another person in CA without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6)]
    2. Either online or in person, import ammunition acquired out-of-state into CA without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6) & 30314(b)(5)]


    Penal Code 30312
    (a)(1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
    (2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.
    (b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
    (c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
    (6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

    Penal Code 30314
    (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
    (5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
  8. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    CA requirements to obtain a CA DOJ COE as a "collector". [PC 26710]
    1. Be 18 years of age or older. [11 CCR 4032(a)]
    2. Be a non-prohibited person. [11 CCR 4032(b)]
    3. Have a valid C&R 03-FFL. [11 CCR 4035(b)(2)(B)] (Before 2020, this was not required. Starting 2020, CA DOJ started to request this.)


    Penal Code 26710
    (a) A person may request a certificate of eligibility from the Department of Justice.
    (b) The Department of Justice shall examine its records and records available to the department in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in order to determine if the applicant is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
    (c) The department shall issue a certificate to an applicant if the department’s records indicate that the applicant is not a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing firearms.
    (d) The department shall adopt regulations to administer the certificate of eligibility program and shall recover the full costs of administering the program by imposing fees assessed to applicants who apply for those certificates.

    California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 3 Article 3 Section 4032
    Qualifications.
    (a) Applicant must be at least 18 years old.
    (b) Applicant must not be in a class of persons described in Penal Code sections 18205, 29800, 29805, 29815 through 29825, 29900, or Welfare and Institutions Code section 8100 or 8103, or Title 18, sections 921 and 922 of the United States Code, or Title 27, Part 478.32 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

    California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 3 Article 3 Section 4035
    Applicant Information.
    (b) Initial COE applicants shall electronically provide the following information to complete the application:
    (2) Applicant shall agree to the following Department Privacy Notice:
    (B) Providing Personal Information: all the personal information requested must be provided. If you fail to provide all personal information requested, your application will not be accepted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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