Ammunition no longer manufactured in the United States

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by orpington, Mar 27, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    12,280
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    Really now? Do you have any shred of evidence to support that wild conjecture?

    More likely there are two primary reasons: (1) it can be a complex question of fact requiring extensive analysis and investigation; and (2) it's subject to change as demand develops for formerly obsolete cartridges and as demand evaporates for once popular cartridges. With regard to the latter, note the reappearance in the marketplace of once obsolete cartridges stimulated by the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting.
     
  2. grter

    grter Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    In all honesty I don't think it's possible to make such a list because these things can change at any time.

    The fact that Dixie is now selling .41 rimfire is a perfect example of a type of ammunition that was once pretty much out of production in the US and probably anywhere for that matter as well as generally unavailable but now is.

    Now if this law was struck down all together things would be much clearer for all of us.:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  3. longspurr

    longspurr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    by the lake - in wonderful Wisconsin
    I vote for the 16 gauge shotgun as obsolete. Anyone bought any 32 short ammo lately? how about the 219 zipper? I think most of the English made Africa calibers are "obsolete", except for the 375 H&H. Example, who buys 300 H&H ammo now?
     
  4. yugorpk

    yugorpk member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,121
    I have a 300 H&H pre 64 model 70. I elk hunt with it and buy ammo. I also have a 16 gauge Stevens shotgun. Ammo isnt hard to find for either one. One of these days I'll buy dies for the 300.
     
  5. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    12,280
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    Who cares what you vote for?

    The fact is that 16 gauge shotshells are cataloged by major ammunition makers including Remington and Winchester. Several of the African cartridges are cataloged by Winchester and most of them by Norma.

    It's not what cartridges you think are obsolete. It's what cartridges are available through ordinary commercial channels.
     
  6. slumlord44

    slumlord44 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    Like most laws and regulations they are written to keep lawyers employed. .25 Stevens Rimfire hasn't been made since the '70's. I have a good supply and can buy it routinely on Gunbroker if I am willing to pay the going price. A good lawyer could argue it both ways.
     
  7. orpington

    orpington Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    771
    Well, why not a master list? It could be revised periodically to reflect calibers that once were commonly available and no longer are, and vice versa. Post it on the ATF site, and then state that this is effective as of a certain date...

    Such a list is maintained in the United Kingdom:

    http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/obsolete-calibre-list/
     
  8. TruthTellers

    TruthTellers member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,075
    ^ Yeah, and that's the thing about "obsolete" ammunition as it pertains to antiques or replicas: it can go either way.

    The three centerfire cartridges I know of that are "obsolete" are the .577 Snider, .450/.577 Martini-Henry, and the .50-90 Sharps. .577 Snider however, is pretty easy to make as it requires 24 gauge primed hulls, a .590 or .600 round ball, and some black powder. All you have to do is cut the hulls down a bit, measure the powder, and stuff the ball into it. Then you've got a working cartridge that can be shot in an old Snider.

    I guess because all those components are sold separately, the ATF lets it slide, but God forbid if the hulls, powder, and balls were sold in a kit along with a boxcutter. The devastation that might cause would be akin to giving ISIS a nuke.

    Then you could look at the Webley revolvers and .455 Webley. I'd be bold and say that the .455 Webley is antique because I can't find it in any gun store I walk into nor can I find it in an internet search. There may be some boxes of .455 ammo sitting around somebody's basement and are sold at a gun show, but I hardly call what a guy has had in his basement for 50 years an ordinary channel.

    But, if Fiocchi decides to crank out some .455 ammo again for a limited run and it starts popping up online, it changes things.

    I guess this is why the BATFE doesn't have a master list.

    I don't mean to go on a rant here, but this goes back to creating a system to "keep guns out of dangerous people's hands" hence the ambiguity. I severely doubt some arms trafficker is gonna consult the BATFE website on a master list of antique guns and ammo so he can go to a gun show in Indiana and buy them by the truckload along with guns bought in a private sale and put them in a mythical van and drive back to Chicago to sell on the streets.

    It's a system designed to control law abiding people because that's the only people the government and the law controls; the law doesn't control criminals. Even with all the restrictions and regulations on gun sales today, criminals are still getting their hands on them.

    If somebody couldn't pass a NICS check and winds up with a Webley or a .46 Rimfire 1858 conversion and working ammo, what does it matter? Until a criminal act is committed with those guns, I don't see any reason it needs to be an issue. It's the same old concept of "it's not the gun, it's the person" that the anti's and the politicians can't comprehend.
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    28,956
    Location:
    Florence, Alabama
    Agree, but Frank will say that what counts is what the law says, not what seems reasonable.

    I think one reason not to have an official list is that the ammunition business is in constant flux and what is obsolete today might be popular tomorrow (BPCR and CAS spring to mind) and what sells today might soon be discontinued. Why take up a government clerk's time keeping track of such stuff?
     
  10. deadin

    deadin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ocean Shores, WA
    I guess one way to simplify the whole thing would be to just remove replicas from the definition of antiques and base it strictly on date of manufacture.:evil:

    (Somehow I don't think this would be a very popular decision.:fire:)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice