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An Active Killer’s Diary

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Fred Fuller, Aug 2, 2015.

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  1. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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  2. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    excellent post. thank you.
     
  3. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I learned long ago that there were individuals among us that might look human -but inside had a lot more in common with a lizard.... Fortunately there aren't very many of them around.

    What I was taught to focus on was not their motivation (I'll leave that for others) but their actions and whatever the appropriate response was in a given situation. The vast, vast majority of killings are impulsive, spur of the moment affairs (no matter what the weapon of choice was). The killer is quite likely to try to explain and justify something they don't understand themselves. Many times they're not even able to admit that they actually did what they've been caught for. I've heard more than one individual trying to avoid any responsibility by saying the "gun went off" as though it was responsible and not the one firing it... Quite a few of the shooters I've dealt with were actually horrified at what they'd done... I clearly remember one detective with a young man in custody for shooting a restaurant owner during a late night robbery... The young man stoutly maintained his innocence yet when his Mom showed up at the station... he just broke down entirely and confessed, begging her forgiveness.... Not that it made a bit of difference to the dead victim....

    The real lesson I took from that terrible Colorado shooting was that there were folks in contact with him that had a good idea how dangerous he was (particularly the psych and I'm certain, his family...). Usually there are clear warning signs that most disregard, then profess to not having a clue about their intended actions.... That New York appeal "if you see something - say something" is a concept that needs to be taught from early on to everyone in our society since it seems that we will continue to produce individuals like Holmes or that sad kid in Charleston.... and in that second case there were clearly folks who could have spoken up long before he shot up that church.....

    Like I said, I was always attuned to actions rather than intentions but for the general public our best defense against these monsters (and all the would be monsters) is to speak up if you see any signs that someone is a real danger to others...

    I'll get down off of my soapbox now...
     
  4. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    12 hours of abnormal Psychology and 30 years of Minsteral and youth work I seen several dozen folks I would not be alone with. Call it Training, experience ,or the prompting of the Holy Spirit some times the alarms go off and I put as much space between them as possible even if I have to be rude in doing it.

    Train your mind and listen to it.
     
  5. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    I agree that so many of these killers had clear indications that they were dangerous but those are the ones we see and hear about in the news, I wonder how many in society may have similar tendencies but live a full life without loosing control and going postal?
    Who here, that is an adult hasn't seen some kid that was so haywire you thought they'ed never turn out and joked about them becoming an axe murderer only to see them 20 yrs later with a family, good job and contributing to society. Ask this to a teacher and you'll probably find many more.
    I find fault in these parents that know their kids are loose cannons but as a parent I sympathize with their hopes and prayers that their kids will right themselves.
    I also believe that the psychiatric professions need to take a good look inward and decide how they evaluate and diagnose some of these seriously defective individuals, first place is to take note of those who are already in the system and keep them incarcerated if they have already show these anti social tendencies.
     
  6. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    I have a BS in Psychology in the early 80's and worked at an "insane" asylum in college as a part of my education. I learned early on that there ARE people that have no right whatsoever to be among "normal" people. 100 years ago these people were removed from the gene pool early on because their psychoses normally caused their early death or they were institutionalized. Today we take a kid with obvious mental problems and with modern medicine we are able to make them appear normal. In the vast majority of cases these people go all the way through life and never hurt anyone. They are productive people in society. The number of these people that actually ever hurt someone is infinitesimally small but they tend to go out in a spectacular fashion because they WANT the attention. Depressed people commit suicide to get away from whatever pain they are in but people that are psychotic will normally lash out and take others with them.

    I would love to see an in depth study that explains why virtually ALL of the mass murderers we see are white males. I have not looked into it but with the mass shootings, or stabbings, we see it seems like every one was committed by a white male. I know there have been a couple by black males but it seems they are a very small percentage. Are white males more prone to gun violence or do they just have more access to guns? Are they more likely to be using anti depressant medications than black or Hispanic males?
     
  7. mdThanatos

    mdThanatos Member

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    I don't see it as a racial or ethnic issue as much as I do a socioeconomic issue. I would look at that difference before starting to put a color on anyone, because technically and according to the governmen, Hispanics are white.
     
  8. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    25 years in law enforcement, starting as a reserve officer while I was still on active duty in the Army, and I discovered that most criminals were to put it frankly stupid, hapless people who were victims of their own poor decision making, or bullies who found crime easier and more fun then a straight life. But I did run into some who were simply evil. There is no other way to put it. I didn't really care what made them that way, but I do know that they never should be out on the street interacting with other people in an uncontrolled environment.

    We are reaping the harvest from the seeds we sewed in the 1980s when we closed most mental institutions and decided that it would be "better" for them and society if they were mainstreamed. Now we don't have the beds to house these people. Newtown may have never happened if Adam Lanza's mother had been able to find a bed for him in a secure residential care setting.
     
  9. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    Same as for the recent shooting in LA. The guy, from my home town, was considered a threat by his own family and was a known "nutjob" in Georgia. I called around and none of my friends knew the guy.
     
  10. Sol

    Sol Member

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    A good article until:


    "Pay attention to anyone who is taking extreme interest in physical design features and security measures in public locations.* Those folks probably aren’t architecture students.* They are likely to be planning to use the information for criminal purposes.* When you notice people acting in this manner, call the police.* There’s a chance that 12 people would still be alive today if someone had noticed the killer’s intelligence gathering activities and reported them to police."

    seems overly paranoid, but that article probably isn't written for civilians.
     
  11. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Or they could be a model railroader getting information to build a model of the place on their layout. It's a pretty widespread hobby.
     
  12. Malamute

    Malamute Member

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    I'm assuming you are talking about local, small scale events in the US. Theres certainly no shortage of vast scale mass murders perpetrated by various shades of skin and ethnic makeup around the world. We wring our hands over a dozen, or even several times that number (and rightly so), when theres been events in other parts of the world that tallied tens of thousands of deaths in mass murders, such as has happened in Africa and other places. It seems really bad in some ways here, but on the greater world stage, its first world problems. Ask some of the Yezidis or other ethnic and religious minorities that lived in towns Islamic State overran, with hundreds lined up and shot down, beheaded, and women taken into slavery, repeated in many small towns.

    Psychotic or criminal motivation may be different in our case, but theres really messed up people all over. Our problems seem pretty small compared to many places in the world. I guess that doesnt forward the discussion of local events, but having some perspective as to how small scale our problems really are may relieve some of the sense of angst and urgency many feel. I doubt that will have much effect on those that would choose to limit freedom as the supposed answer to the ills of humanity that occasionally visit us though.
     
  13. Sol

    Sol Member

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    After reading the section I quoted 3 more times it still doesn't make sense. Ok so you call the police on some guy who you think is overly curious about the building, then what?

    No crime, so they may take their time to get there, if they do catch him they could question the architechtualy curious, but not jail him.

    Since the police aren't security guards, they aren't going to post out of the theatre to wait for the action. The theatre isn't going to invest $30k a year for security guards for one guy with a curiosity for emergency exits.

    This guy thinks people intersted in building layouts correlates with crime.

    I think that keeping a journal, diary or manifesto has more correlation to crimes more than anything.

    Many crazy criminal types keep some sort of journal. From hitler to holmes.

    Comrades, if you know a white male between the ages of 14 through 35 and keeps a journal, call the authorities immediatley.


    Still not afraid of a mass shooter or terrierorists.
     
  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Jeff, some 50+ years ago I helped a friend measure the different structural elements of a Wabash Railroad bridge over the Missouri River at St. Charles. MO.

    He was in fact an architecture student and a model railroader.

    The drawings and the model he built were for a class project. The model ended up on my dad's HO layout.

    Our trespassing on the bridge would not be looked upon favorably at all the days.

    But in those days, police officers questioning motorists because their cars matched the description of stolen property might, when observing an uncased Garand and US Rifle, Model 1917 on the back seat, simply ask where the occupants had been shooting.

    Until mergers and acquisitions eliminated almost all of the variety among freight trains in our area, I used to photograph trains at various locations, from different vantage points, in different seasons, and in different lighting and weather conditions. That is still a popular hobby. After 9-11-01, those hobbyists were held in suspicion by some state and local agencies.

    I have no idea what to look for these days that might indicate a possible risk of mass shooting.
     
  15. Sol

    Sol Member

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    Model Railroader = criminal.

    You have no business photographing or even being curious about infrastructure, architecture, agriculture, water-ways or any object or property owned by the people... I mean government people, not people "people".

    Iv seen people taking pictures of the federal courthouse and I've seem people "bird watching" over a bridge where a sewage plant is easily visible.

    Should have called the police, could have saved sooooo many lives.
     
  16. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Neither do I. We live in a (somewhat) free society. No one would want to live in a society so restrictive that they actually thought they could prevent bad things from happening. I understand legislation has been introduced in New York state to require movie theaters to have metal detectors at the doors in response to the last mass shooting.
     
  17. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    Agree that people that commit these atrocities, sometimes on a national scale and sometimes with the governments approval, are truly sick. That list is long and goes back throughout history. Ethnic cleansing or whatever you want to call it requires a certain type of crazy.

    Yes I am talking about localized, generally single event, mass killers. Multiple victims killed in a single spree as opposed to the Ted Bundy's of the world.
     
  18. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    Since virtually all of these mass murderers are white males then you HAVE to look at it from a racial point of view. The socio-economic issue is a sub-topic that might play a part but is secondary to the race issue in this instance.

    I have no problem with addressing things from a racial point of view. Maybe it's because I am a white male but I don't feel threatened when I see a pattern that involves white males. Most gun crimes where I live are committed by young, black males. Most meth lab busts include whites, male and female. Most mass murderers are white males. If there is a correlation between financial situations and mass murder then I haven't see that study. Since "middle class" covers about 95% of people above the poverty line I have a hard time when anyone is described as middle class. $40k a year is middle class and so is $120k a year.
     
  19. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I must chime in here... Nothing I've said should be construed as calling for scrutiny of ordinary folks. The things I'm talking about are folks that have made public statements threatening others - then tried on at least one occasion to either carry them out -or have clearly been planning such things (this is where any mental health professional or family member is probably obligated to say something - once they've seen the evidence in the form of a diary, manifesto, or other written evidence). Other things are clearly criminal and should be reported. A fine example is a young man with a troubled history carrying a concealed firearm - that should have been reported, and would have saved lives in the recent church shooting in the Carolinas... We're not talking rocket science here. As a cop I was sent to or found on my own... many, many suspicious incidents or suspicious persons. A quick bit of investigation showed that 99% were nothing to be concerned with. The other 1% were enough to give you nightmares if you thought about them....

    When I was a kid (I'm 67 now so we're talking at least fifty years ago..) there was no such thing as an "active shooter". The first I can remember as the Texas tower shooter -I was an adult when that occurred. Random shooting incidents where strangers are killed deliberately are part of our society now (the dark part of our world currently) and need to be addressed. There are circumstances where no one will have a clue that a monster is ready to go to war against his community - but most of the time there are readily known things that should have local authorities on the alert about the individual. The killing prevented is something we all need to be better at....
     
  20. Sol

    Sol Member

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    It's not a race or socio-economic issue.

    It's a crazy person issue. White males may dominate the single shooter mass shooter category but other races do it too.

    I think your average white guy mass shooter is probably depressed, feels ostricized by society and commits the shooting as a revenge on civil society as a whole. They probably have a not so serious criminal or mental health record and felt that they were personally slighted by society and the government. They feel that they left their mark. Type B, introverted, narcissistic, psuedo-intellect. The crime is not personal.

    Hate to wade here but other races commit mass shootings too. Blacks, again in my opinion, commit mass homicide for different reasons. There usually is a personal connection to the victims. The crime is out of revenge or monetary reasons. Total type A, confident and deliberate.

    All opinion, no facts to back it up talking out of my rear end. Could be wrong
    but it makes sense to me.
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    - See more at: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-active-killers-diary#sthash.BbYtgHoJ.dpuf

    Well, the diary certainly counters all those who claimed the theater was picked because it was a gun-free zone, who pointed out how that must have been the reason for picking the theater because it was picked in place of theaters that allows guns in the area, or more convenient to the shooter's house.
     
  22. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm guessing that the reason these shootings happen in gun free zones is strictly coincidental. The shooters pick venues where there are a lot of people. Most venues where you can find a lot of people are gun free zones.

    I note that he was concerned about police response times but not about armed citizens. With all of the inroads we have made nationwide with the concealed carry movement, the odds of a criminal being confronted by an armed citizen are still pretty small.
     
  23. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    I agree completely. That doesn't stop me from using that information to validate my point:)
     
  24. grter

    grter Member

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    "The most evil hide behind the most holy"

    A saying I once learned and found to be true concerning the difficulty of understanding human nature.

    The coach, preist, pastor, teacher, etc... for example who secretely abuses children then kills as many as he/she can upon discovery. Do we actively scrutinize and rip apart the lives of prominant people who happen to be in any these professions because of the wrongful actions of a few of their professional peers. No! of course not, and niether should we with people who are mentally ill.

    A lot of what was said here makes sense but keep in mind that mentally ill people make up for a minority of murders, in fact they are more likely to be victims than the average person.

    As was said earlier by someone with experience most murders are impulsive and/or other.

    Talking about incarcerating people and building more institutions is the wrong path. You will save some lives but how many lives are you going to ruin because of mere suspicion based on mental illness. Probably a lot more. It is unjust, expensive and wrong.

    Doctors generally know what they are doing and have the training to determine who should be locked up but even they should not be allowed unchecked power and are prone to mistakes.

    Expecting perfection in any human being is unrealistic and attempting to rectify human imperfections by passing oppressive legislation is a sure fast road to failure and suffering.

    Crimes commited by mentally ill people are like shark attacks once the media gets a hold of it information is distorted and blown way out of proportion. The result is a scapgoating full fledged witch hunt based on fear, hysteria, and ignorance.

    If anything modern day gun owners should understand this being victims themselves of zealot purges.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  25. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Grter,
    There is a serious problem with the mentally ill in this country. Mass shootings are simply the tip of the iceberg. There are tens of thousands of people walking around out there that are not capable of functioning without assistance. The mass shooters are the ones that get all of the press, but most of the homeless are mentally ill. Probably 50 % of the people we have in jail and prison are mentally ill. We simply have no other place to put them.

    I have spent hours in the ER waiting while the Drs tried to place a mentally ill person who had committed a crime but was obviously not all there only to take them to jail when a mental health bed couldn't be found.

    I've seen the state department of human services be found in contempt of court for failing to find a bed for an inmate who had been committed. In the mean time these people languish in jail, where they get no treatment.

    Involuntary committal is a judicial process here. You can take someone in and if you can find a bed, they are entitled to a hearing after 96 hours.

    If you have to arrest them, they sit in jail though a preliminary hearing while a public defender is appointed to defend them on the charges, then they sit in jail (if they can't make bond) for 3 weeks to a month for the next hearing at which time the public defender asks for a mental health evaluation. If the judge orders the mental health evaluation then he sits in jail for a week or two until the state psych people get there and do the evaluation. Then he waits in jail for maybe a month until there next hearing when the judge finds him mentally ill and orders treatment. Then here in Illinois he he sits in jail for another week to four months or so until the state comes up with a bed in a mental institution.

    The public isn't really aware of this because it doesn't get a lot of press. But I spoke to my counterparts in other states when I was running the jail and the situation is pretty much the same nationwide.

    You see, we are already incarcerating these people, but in the criminal justice system. The criminal justice system was never meant to handle the mentally ill and they get released. And some of them commit mass shootings.

    Until we do something about our mental health infrastructure these things are going to continue to happen.

    This post is off topic for ST&T and I ask for everyone's indulgence.
     
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