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An American, in Japan, on gun control

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Nightfall, Mar 20, 2004.

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  1. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/guns.htm

    Some real jewels in this one...
    It's not the ones who support said dictator that have to worry...
    So we're slaves to our own, violent human nature, and because of that, we shouldn't care about being real slaves, and should throw all the guns away? If only we could do that, us Americans wouldn't really be slaves, we could be free like the Japanese! :rolleyes:

    There's an e-mail link at the bottom for comments: jason@asahi.email.ne.jp

    Some of the gunners on the responses page have done a great job of making us look like a-holes, so maybe a few well thought out, nicely articulated replies might get posted... if he really does have an interest in honest debate, that is. Knowing how most anti-gunners are though, I'm not exactly holding my breath...

    EDIT: Don't forget the page explaining what freedom really is, and how we will be more free if we're disarmed! :scrutiny: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/freedom.htm
     
  2. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    Japan's culture is incredibly different from that of the United States, on levels that it often takes a thorough analysis to even understand.

    To say that because something works in Japanese society, it will work in American society, is to lack a basic socioloical understanding of the greatly differing cultural values, beliefs, and ideals involved.

    But, such intricate complexities are probably lost on the nozzle who wrote this.
     
  3. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Hah! Japan's history is war, war, war and serfdom. It was only through military defeat and the imposition of democratic government that ended their militarism.

    And I'd still rather live here. If you know anything about Japan's culture you know why. I'll take my chances with our criminals rather than be subjected to their brand of collectivist psychosis.
     
  4. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Thats the bottom line in all of these comparisons....cultural differences, not the existence or non existence of gun control.

    Simplistic dont you think? Able to generalize 2000 years of history like that....

    I know something about Japanese culture. My wife is Japanese. That comment is insulting.

    WildgrrrrAlaska
     
  5. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    And perhaps the leopards and lions and wolves will have a big sleep-over with the herbivores. And the world will sing happy songs like the Barney theme as we work together to build paradise. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Treylis

    Treylis Member

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    From what I hear about the police-state nature of Japan, it's about time they had a revolution anyways.
     
  7. Declaration Day

    Declaration Day Member

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    "Perhaps we are all violent beasts at heart"?

    Maybe so, but I choose to be a peaceful person. I feel the need to be prepared for self defense because of others who do not think as I do. Funny thing is, many of the people I know who are anti-gun are the types who are part of the problem; they see nothing wrong with things like initiating a road rage incident, or punching someone in the face for insulting them. My CCW instructor taught me a very useful phrase: "If its not worth your life, it's not worth a fight." If everyone thought that way, I MIGHT feel at ease walking around unarmed.
     
  8. Unlucky

    Unlucky member

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    You could generalize about 700 of the past 1000 years of Japanese history like that. Before that, things are more fuzzy. We don't know much about the first inhabitants of Japan, but the current Korean-descent based population preponderates and the Ainu are found only in the frigid region of Hokkaido, telling us something about who won that struggle.

    One reason why Japan is fairly harmonious may have something to do with ethnicity, or the lack thereof, in the population. Koreans and the Ainu are the only major ethnic groups, but they are a tiny percentage of the population.
     
  9. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh, if only we could be as free as the Japanese. :rolleyes:
     
  10. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Is this news?

    The author grew up in NJ, regurgitates collectivist liberal pablum, demonstrates massive ignorance of history, recommends smart guns, and has put though only into the first onion skin layer of his argument.

    Yawn.


    http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/index.htm
     
  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Well said, Declaraton Day!
    "If its not worth your life, it's not worth a fight."
    Words to live by.
    There are two main factors concerning Japan and guns.
    1. Japanese society is very homogeneous, that is, it is comprised of basically one ethnic group, with thousands of years of tradition dictating much of one's life, from drinking tea to the warrior's path of bushido.
    2. When guns were introduced by the Portugese, the Shoguns made sure that they were kept in the ruling class. The people were never allowed to privately owns guns. Heck, they even regulated small hand tools.


    :D
     
  12. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Hmmm, this makes me wonder, whats a japanese prison like?
     
  13. bukijin

    bukijin Member

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    Isn't Japan the archetype model of gun control ? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that in the 1500's Japan had the most guns per population of anywhere in the world. When Tokugawa became shogun, he outlawed guns (except for his own forces of course) and the Tokugawa shogunate lasted into the mid/late 1800's.

    From a few stories I've heard, Japanese prisons are not the kind of places one would ever want to be !
     
  14. Unlucky

    Unlucky member

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    hardly an expert on Japanese penology, but I've read that they use lots of mind control, enforce strict discipline and a code of silence among inmates. IOW, they break you through isolation and if you screw up expect to have the guards throw cold water on you, turn the lights on, etc. to deprive you of sleep, for starters.
     
  15. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    They have the death penalty too.


    WildandalowcrimerateAlaska
     
  16. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    I understand the Japanese murder statistics are a bit skewered. Things like multiple murders by another family member (hundreds of which take place every year) are ruled as "family suicides" and not murder.

    Anybody who takes a look at the history of Japan and refers to it as a "peaceful society" or whatever he said is a few cans short of a six pack.
     
  17. Daniel

    Daniel Member

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    'Can't we all just get along' speaketh the chicken to the chicken hawk.

    We've been murdering each other since memory: the dumb (standard scum wads) murder for themselves; the smart (you know who) have someone murder for them for themselves.

    You can't stop it. Live and die with it.
     
  18. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    That nitwit should stay in Japan and leave America to Americans.
     
  19. iapetus

    iapetus Member

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    I don't know about guns in Japan. But I think they had very strict controls on all kinds of arms. (Only the samurai and a few others were permitted weapons. And had the right to use them on any peasant who insulted them/ disobeyed them / looked at him funny).

    I think it was Tokugawa who was responsible. (Overthrew the previous regiem with the aid of a peasant army, so knew what peasants could do and didn't want to go the same way). I also seem to remember seeing a quote from him or a contemporary along the lines of "weapons in the hands of the peasants interferes with the efficient collection of taxes".
     
  20. azrael

    azrael Member

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    I have been to Japan twice in my life and I want to go back again....To me there is simply a cultural difference between us...In terms of civilization they had working governments when we were still bashing each other with sticks...

    Gun control works there....It wouldnt work here....To me it is as simple as that...But I think that they are going to start having some of the problems that we are having...Japan's youth are starting to be more "american" in certain ways and not all of them good...

    FWIW...When I was there I was around some of the most "polite" people I had ever met...France?? forget it..I hated it and I doubt I would ever return there...


    yo wild....how do I get me a Japanese wife?? I WANT ONE!!
    :D
     
  21. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    In order to eliminate cultural differences as an explanation for murder rate differences, we need to do a pre and post experiment, using the same population. This is the most scientifically valuable sociological test of a policy on guns. Unlike other sciences, we cannot create groups, making sure each group is comprable on all factors. Instead, we can do a pre and post test. That is to say, look at a population when gun control is heavy, and then introduce a Shall Issue law, statewide, and see if violent crime increases or decreases. This has been done in several states already (e.g., Florida), and the results are in. You cannot blame cultural differences for the reduced violent crime rates post Shall Issue, because the culture hasn't changed. The results are due, therefore, to the changed policy on guns. What do we find? More guns equals less violent crime, and the perception on the part of the criminal that more potential victims are able to defend themselves equals less violent crime (Stated differently, an armed society is a polite society). What do we learn when we introduce radical gun control into a society that previously had little? More gun control equals more violent crime, as we can easily observe in England and Australia. These studies make the relationship between gun control and crime rather obvious to anyone actually interested in learning. Too bad the popular news outlets don't report this fascinating news. I wonder if they are biased. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2004
  22. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    Bingo. Japan is just about the most ethnically homogenous inddustrialized nation. As a side effect, Japanese racism tends to be pretty extreme. One of the reasons why the Japanese treated war captives and populations of conquered territories so savagely was the lack of restraint fueled by the belief that non-Japanese were sub-human at best.

    "A man away from home has no neighbours," indeed.
     
  23. rust collector

    rust collector Member

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    Marko, I think you are on the right track. The Japanese culture works well for them, and they have in recent years (perhaps with a little outside help) been good at adopting beneficial change. Japanese citizens I have visited with and hosted tend to be quite compliant, especially the women. The mores that have been instilled over many centuries have a prominent role in their lives. That's neither good nor bad, but different from our European based culture which has armed rebellion at its origin.

    The Japanese have their ruthless side, as any survivor of the Bataan march or the Burma-Thailand railroad project will confirm. Although our objectives are similar, their approach is different and I don't think either culture can grasp all the nuances that make us the way we are. Their maps feature Japan at the center. Ours feature North America.

    Thoughtful discussion of these social differences can be useful, but this author is preaching to the choir and the resulting head bobbing of his readers does little other than to retrench "our way".
     
  24. HankB

    HankB Member

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    I've visited Japan twice on business, and was (generally) treated well. But I have to relate one story which bears on the quote above.

    My buddy and I were walking down a street in Tokyo one evening, looking at all the hooker trading cards taped to the railing along one of the foot bridges. (JUST looking!!!) A group of four Oriental men approached us and asked "Do you speak English, please?"

    We allowed as we did speak English.

    "Please, can you tell us where (some shrine) is?"

    My buddy and I looked at each other - he's American, but immigrated from India, I'm a typical roundeye with Baltic ancestry - and laughingly said "Take a look at us - we're not from around here! Why don't you ask someone Japanese?"

    The sad reply: "We tried, but we're from Korea. No Japanese will talk to us."

    This was less than 10 years ago.
     
  25. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Another anecdote of Japanese racisim vs Koreans:

    There is a great deal that I appreciate about Japanese culture, but like any culture, it has its dark side.

    All told, I've lived in Nagoya, Japan for about a year. During one of our trips, we went to Peace Park in Hiroshima.

    Within this park is a number of memorials to the various groups who were present in the city when the bomb went off.

    Each of them was heavily festooned with long chains of paper swans made by schoolchildren.

    I noticed on the map that there was a number (indicating a memorial) several blocks away from the main park. Curious, I hiked out to see what the deal was.

    It was the memorial to the Korean "guest workers" (read: slave laborers) who were present at the time, erected by, IIRC, the Korean Embassy. I'm not even going to imagine the BS they encountered trying to get it into the park propper.

    Some decent person had hung a single chain of swans on it.
     
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