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An anti told me I don't have any rights.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Drjones, Jan 10, 2003.

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  1. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    So I have been debating via email with an anti who emailed me through the MM forums. He advocates a total ban on handgun sales to the public.

    I can post some of the interesting tidbits of our prior emails upon request, but I thought you all would find his latest piece fascinating. I sure did. Hope you've got antacid nearby....

    I don't believe you have any "rights," Strati. In fact, I don't know what "rights" are. There are only actions. I want to live in a gun-free country. I guess that is my "right." You want to live in a country that allows gun ownership. That is your "right." You do not have a universal "right" to own a gun. Hell, you and I don't even have a "right" to vote! I'm glad we currently are able to, though. You don't have a universal "right" to anything. In the United States the 2nd amendment, as currently interpreted by the Supreme Court, gives you the "right" to bear arms.

    That "right," however, could be taken away at any time. "Rights" are taken away and bestowed all over the world by different governments at different times for different reasons. Usually the reason for taking away or granting rights is based on utility, like I said before. Once enough people in this country get together and decide that you no longer have the "right" to a handgun, that "right" will be as illegal and immoral as your "right" to own a slave.

    Which is not to say I equate owning a handgun with owning a slave, I'm just making a point: Rights are human constructs, and nothing more, and any attempt to prove them otherwise is question begging. There is NO arguing with that. Do you understand that? Do you know anything about morality and rights and things like that? You only have a right to own a gun because we the people, through our elected representatives, have decided that you do. When we decide you don't, you don't. Do you think there's some magical "right" system floating around in the ether? Do you get your "rights" from God?



    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :cuss:
     
  2. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    And my reply to that filthy email:


    People with your mentality are the ones who created, perpetuated, justified, and condoned things like slavery and the Holocaust. This is because, as you said, you do not believe that each individual human being has certain inalieable rights. Granted, the concept of "rights" may be constructed by people, but they are not GRANTED by man, nor governments.

    It is truly sad that you believe that governments and man GIVE rights to other humans. We may have created the concept, but we do not dispense them, for if man dispensed rights, he would be equally free to withhold or revoke them. And just because a government, group of people, or individual may be infringing upon or denying rights to other humans does not mean that the rights do not exist; it merely means they are being infringed.

    People with your mentality can freely opress, kill, injure, and otherwise harm other humans because they can justify it all too easily; after all, people don't really have rights! Everything is relative!

    People with your mentality would terrorize and oppress a minority. Just because a majority of people may agree with something does not make it right. Slavery used to be perfectly legal. Hell, the BIBLE speaks of slavery as if it was the will of god! Does that make it right? Certainly not.

    Just because a majority believes something does not make it right nor correct. And a majority that forces its will upon a minority is evil, tyrranous, and oppressive.

    "Let's take away their guns, they serve no purpose."

    "Let's take away/limit/restrict their freedom of speech. We don't like what they are saying."
     
  3. Bob Locke

    Bob Locke Member

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    You're a brave, brave man. And a tolerant one.

    My reply wouldn't have been anywhere near as nice...
     
  4. MitchSchaft

    MitchSchaft member

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    That's an awful lot of energy to be pouring into that guy.:uhoh:
     
  5. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Dr Jones, great response. But I think that guy is about 10,000 times beneath your intellectual level though. He only contradicted himself twice in his second sentence. Of course most anti's are minimum 100 times beneath you on average =)


    Sorry about all the *** kissing, but you rule :D
     
  6. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    obviously this guy doesn't know the difference between a "right" and a "privilege".

    Have him read 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World.

    The reason we live in a Republic and not a Democracy is that a Democracy = 51% oppressing 49%.
     
  7. m.i.sanders

    m.i.sanders Member

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    Very good Drjones. I'm impressed, by both you're argument and the fact you didn't verbally smack this num-nut upside the head.
     
  8. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    "In fact, I don't know what "rights" are."
    That pretty much says it all. :eek:
     
  9. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    Drjones

    Was this person pretending to be an AMERICAN? Are there more like that?

    I'm afraid- very afraid.:what:
     
  10. Bruce H

    Bruce H Member

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    I wonder what this individual's thoughts would be about terminating his ability to use oxygen. Would probably find all sorts of rights that were considered sacred.
     
  11. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

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    Way to go, DR. I hope you don't have your heart set on converting that ummmm... *gentleman*. I think you're right on the money.
    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  12. yorec

    yorec Member

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    The guy sounds rather addled to me. Whoever said "ignorance is bliss?"

    Good luck...
     
  13. cobb

    cobb Member

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    Drjones, where did you dig this guy up from?
     
  14. MacPelto

    MacPelto Member

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    Enlighten me, please...what are th MM forums? I might like to get in on some of this action!
     
  15. Monte Harrison

    Monte Harrison Member

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    Flame away, but

    I happen to agree. There are no rights, only power: the power to compel and the power to resist. When the power to compel is stronger than the power to resist, the compellers win, and vice-versa, unless the holders of the superior power agree not to exercise it. Our power to resist the seizure of our weapons is strong enough to prevent it, right now. That is the only reason why we still have our weapons. The US has not vaporized Iraq, N. Korea, etc. inspite of the fact that we have the power to do so because we choose not to at this juncture.
    Rebuttal?
     
  16. bedlamite

    bedlamite Member

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  17. MacPelto

    MacPelto Member

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    Thank you, Bedlamite.
     
  18. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    The difference between the distorted ideology of this individual and reality would vanish in the blink of an eye were he to stare down the barrel of a gun and contemplate his own death. His understanding of his right to live would make a sudden and dramatic appearance.
     
  19. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    My right to bear arms comes from nothing more complex or mystical than the fact that I have a large primate brain and opposable thumbs. Take away all my guns, knives and swords, and I can still pick up sticks and rocks.
     
  20. enichols

    enichols Member

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    Drjones-
    That was a great, eloquent response to that oxygen thief. I've been to the MM forums pretty frequently, and the fact that people out there have the same mentality as this person is truly frightening.

    Out of curiosity, what was the windbag's response to your email?
    -Nic
     
  21. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    DrJones - for a youngster (comparatively speaking of course), you did very well. Kudos.
     
  22. Robert J McElwain

    Robert J McElwain Member

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    Actually, the anti- guy makes some worth while real world points that we had better pay attention to. Right now, the antis are a noisy minority. If we're not vigilant and we allow them to become a majority, all our posturing about our rights won't stop the government from coming into our homes and taking the guns, regardless of what we think our rights are.

    The majority does have the ABILITY to contol the lives of everyone else. That's not about rights. It's how democracy works. We need to pay attention when there are misguided people willing to subvert our rights to their ideology.

    Bob
     
  23. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I have to admit, Drjones, I sometimes become annoyed by your "youthful exuberance."

    Then I remind myself that you're a MUCH stronger fighter for the RKBA than I was at your age.

    We've watched you go from a kid that had the tiniest bit of trouble accepting full responsibility for his uncle's wrecked Viper to a keyboard warrior promoting self-reliance. That's pretty cool.

    Word of advice, though: Get offline sometime. There's a big ol' world out there.

    :cool:
     
  24. Viking6

    Viking6 Member

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    Rights without power is like a sleigh ride without bells.
     
  25. ojibweindian

    ojibweindian Member

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    Then I guess he doesn't have the right to affordable healthcare, a safe and secure place to live, adequate nutrition, etc. etc. etc.:D
     
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