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An Elementary Question About a Sizing Die

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by SC_Dave, Feb 17, 2020.

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  1. SC_Dave

    SC_Dave Member

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    Sometime back I bought a RCBS carbide sizing/decapping die for 9mm Luger. I read somewhere that no lube is required with carbide dies but I continued lubricating the cases anyway. With the die being carbide and the brass being 9mm is lubrication necessary? For the you guys that have a carbide sizing die do you lube 9mm?
    Thanks, David
     
  2. sequins

    sequins Member

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    Lube is not necessary. I've never lubed any of the thousands of 9mm cases I've resized with carbide lee or redding dies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  3. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    I lube with any dies, carbide or steel. I have heard the same thing about no lube as well, have had cases start getting hard to size.
     
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  4. rg1

    rg1 Member

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    No lube necessary for a carbide 9MM sizing die. Your carbide ring in the sizing die should be clean and no brass build-up and then need no lube.
     
  5. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    OK, this question keeps coming up and since I never lubed my 9mm brass while many insisted they have to, over the years I did some digging and these are what I have found:
    • Not all carbide sizer rings are made the same - Most use straight carbide ring but Lee carbide sizer ring is tapered, like the tapered profile of 9mm brass
    • Some carbide sizer rings have sharp, squared die opening while Lee tapered carbide sizer ring has radiused opening
    • Most USPSA 9mm Major match shooters do not mark their brass and will not reuse the brass. They leave these overly expanded brass for unsuspecting reloaders to wonder why it takes much more effort to resize some 9mm brass
    • Dry tumbling brass in media treated with NuFinish liquid polish leaves light coating of residual polymer which helps with resizing effort
    • Wet tumbling brass leaves brass surface squeaky clean (Think more friction)

    Even when resizing 9mm brass on Pro 1000, especially with new linkage and ergo handle, I did not need to lube my 9mm brass. I have always dry tumbled my brass and for most of my reloading years have used NuFinish polish (Recently using Turtle Wax polish) with great results in terms of polishing and residual polymer on brass keeping brass tarnish free.

    When 9mm Major brass started showing up, I noticed greater resizing effort and now chamber check these brass and if they won't pass the plunk test, I will attempt to resize again and if brass fails the second time, consider the brass overly expanded (Think thinned case wall) and toss for recycling.

    Now using Auto Breech Lock Pro (I guess Lee is back to calling it Pro 4000 :D), resizing 9mm brass is easily done and resizing 40S&W/45ACP brass is effortless (Well, it was almost effortless on Pro 1000 too).

    These are not my brass picture but shows the scrape mark resizing some overly expanded brass with some brand resizing die could result - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-resize-die.863126/page-2#post-11381953

    [​IMG]

    These are brass resized with Lee tapered carbide sizer ring - I think the radiused die opening helps smooth out even overly expanded brass and with tapered carbide ring, resize brass without scraping.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  6. Eddy19

    Eddy19 Member

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    I lube regardless carbide or steel that's just me, it is less friction. Quick matter to just spray lube them all at once.
     
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  7. SC_Dave

    SC_Dave Member

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    I'm at work so I can't look but, IIRC the RCBS die has a radius to the edge and it is tapered IE: no sizing ring.
     
  8. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    I didn't used to lube 9x19 brass when sizing with a carbide die, but after 57 years of cranking press handles, I've found that it's much, much easier to size 9x19 brass with a small amount of lube on the cases. When I size brass, I normally do it in batches of a thousand, and the reduced effort is well worth a few quick spritz's of lube on the brass. After it's sized, I just let them run in one of my tumblers with some fine ground corn cob for about half an hour, and they come out clean and shiny. By using 20/40 grit corn cob, nothing gets stuck in the flash holes.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  9. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    The only time I lube any pistol brass is when I'm using brand-new, squeaky clean brass with no carbon residue. And then I'll just lube the first couple and then one every 15-20.

    Carbon residue actually makes a nice little lubricating layer. I like shiny brass, but I don't want it literally squeaky clean.
     
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  10. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    I never lube my cases and use rcbs. Who makes the brass makes a huge difference in sizing effort. Cbc and s and b require a lot more effort to size than win and most of the others. I broke a bench with a cbc case.
     
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  11. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    +1. I did notice the same when initially resizing new Starline brass but I just applied more force on the ram lever. :D

    I am using RMR "BrightFired" brass that have been wet tumbled for some of my test loads and they resize just like dry tumbled brass in my Auto Breech Lock Pro - https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/cases/pistol-cases/9mm-luger-parabellum/9mm-luger-brightfired-brass-cases-1/

    Dry tumbled 9mm brass on the left and RMR wet tumbled brass on the right

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I've been using a fair amount of Shooter's Connection roll-sized 9mm brass over the last year which seems to have been wet tumbled. I think some wet tumbling leaves something on the brass, and some processes/detergents take off everything. As long as there's some kind of film left, it's all about the same.
     
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  13. film495

    film495 Member

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    if I'm doing 100 pistol cases, any pistol case - I very lightly lube 10 out of 100 in advance, and then just count and run a lubed case through every 10th case. it doesn't add extra time, because I touch the case mouth to the lube pad before expanding belling, so - the cases go back in the tumbler for a little while anyways. I use RCBS carbide dies. They say you don't have to lube, but don't say you're not supposed to. It makes the ram a little lighter to operate as well.
     
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  14. mdi

    mdi Member

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    This is one of those "if you wanna, go ahead, no harm no foul. If you don't wanna, don't, no harm no foul" things. I have loaded a few thousand 9mm rounds and most of the time just use my carbide sizing die sans case lube. On occasion I might lube a few, like every 5th or 8th case just to make pulling the handle a bit easier. Either way, I get good, safely sized cases...
     
  15. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I agree.
    I don't need to lube 9mm brass using my Lee die, but a l little lube makes the whole process less effort.
    Since I normally do a 1000+ at a time less effort is a good thing.
     
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  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    No lube is needed, I even used to consider sizing 500 9MM cases as good exercise for my throwing shoulder. Oh to be young.

    But these days my old joints like to put a smidge of lube on every 8 or 10th case. Man is that nice.

    YMMV :)
     
  17. drband

    drband Member

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    I have not lubed 9mm, but age has a way of changing your mind!
     
  18. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    That's my excuse. "Nah, I don't need to lift today... I'm filling a can with ammo."
     
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  19. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    I use Hornady One Shot on ALL my pistol brass. Lubed 9mm brass going through my Dillon 650 requires almost no effort.

    Try it, you'll like it.
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been lubing 9mm cases since I heard about it and gave it a try. It easily reduces the amount of force needed to resize cases by 50%. This isn't to say that you need to lube the cases, but for the small effort needed to do it the savings in energy expended is substantial.

    It may well be a function of age. I had a buddy over last week who reloaded 1600 9mm rounds. He didn't use any lube, but he's also less than half my age
     
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  21. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    ( LiveLife ) <------- Had to retire early at 53 due to spinal stenosis (Choose your parents carefully!) and after 600,000+ rounds reloaded, still loads around 500 rounds per reloading session without lubing 9mm cases. :p

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Actually dozed off at the press during a 1000 round 45ACP reloading session 7 years ago.:rofl: Now can doze off at the press at will. :D

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Consummate brass hound - Uses Unger grabber and Garden Weasel nut gatherer to pick up brass from ground if spinal stenosis induced back spasms flare up.

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Suffers from glaucoma with a touch of cataract but thankful for not suffering from arthritis and shaky hands (yet). :)

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Suffers from high blood pressure and gets irritated when scope crosshairs jump with heartbeat and have to shoot between heart beats.

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Suffers from Type 2 Diabetes and keeps chocolate candy bars at the bench (But eats them anyways even when not shaky from low blood sugar) :oops::D

    ( LiveLife ) <------- Takes dogs for walks but dogs drag him back home. When wife/daughter suggest to go on a coastal hike, asks if the trail is flat. :rofl:
    I resist! I defy laws of friction!

    I refuse to lube 9mm cases ... for now. ;)

    10 years from now, I could be saying praises for lubing 9mm cases.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  22. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Livelife, let yourself be seduced by the dark side, give those 9mm cases just a dab of lube every now and then.
    Using the power of the dark side requires only half the effort leaving more energy for dog walks.:D
    Even though I use wash and wax (wash and wax makes it easier than dishwashing liquid) in my wet tumble depriming/resizing with a small shot of Frandford/Dillon lube in a bag of 500 or so works wonders.
     
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  23. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Actually, I was seduced by the "slippery side" of lubing the case when I did the myth busting thread on residual lube on case neck (inside) affecting neck tension and bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/myth-busting-residual-lube-affect-on-neck-tension-bullet-setback.834035/

    And yes, lubed 9mm cases absolutely reduced the amount of effort needed to resize the brass and ever since, I have agreed that lubing brass will reduce resizing effort. :thumbup:

    But often thread titles don't ask whether lubing 9mm brass reduces resizing effort. Often they are posed as "Is lubing 9mm brass necessary for resizing with carbide die?" like this thread's OP
    And of course, lubing 9mm brass is not necessary when using carbide resizing die. :D

    Does lubing 9mm brass reduce resizing effort? Absolutely!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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