Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

An intruder has broken into my house...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by StrikeFire83, Jan 12, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. StrikeFire83

    StrikeFire83 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,175
    Location:
    Texas
    Okay, hypothetical situation.

    I live in a two bedroom apartment with my girlfriend. A bad guy forces entry into my unit, either by breaking a window (I'm on the first floor) or forcing his way through the flimsy front door, and I shoot him at 10-12 feet. Let’s assume this has already occurred.

    Now, if I approach the guy and double-tap him in the head, have I just changed the nature of the home invasion? How would the authorities look at a situation like this? Ballistics would surely illustrate two separate bullet trajectories.

    I guess the underlying question here is: if someone has broken into your house, and there are people other than yourself inside that you care about more than your own life, are you justified in making sure this person is dead before letting your guard down and calling the authorities?

    I got into a pretty heated argument with a good friend over this sort of situation, and would appreciate the input of everybody here.
     
  2. ka50

    ka50 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    189
    LOL of course you'll be charged with murder for this.

    When a person stops presenting IMMIDEATE deadly threat, he is no longer a threat. Thus if you double tap him after you disabled him, you are technically murdering him.

    Unless you are able to convince the jury that he still presented a deadly and immideate threat and ability to carry out this threat, you're in a whole lotta trouble.
     
  3. odysseus

    odysseus Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    946
    Location:
    US Citizen
    ??? :uhoh: Please explain in this hypothetical situation of yours, why you feel you would need to take this action?

    From what you wrote here, I assume the first shoot stopped the assailant. That's what you are trying to do, STOP an assailant. If the assailant dies because of your attempts to stop his violent attack, well so be it. However if you have stopped him, and then you continue with an action to kill him even though he no longer represents an immediate threat to you, hypothetically as you say, I would think that that would be a very bad shoot.

    ...that's probably why you are getting into heated arguments on this hypothetical situation.
     
  4. StrikeFire83

    StrikeFire83 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,175
    Location:
    Texas
    I guess it would be more prudent to approach the intruder and check for a weapon, and upon not finding on just hold the gun on him whilst I call the police.

    It's just that I've heard too many stories/read to many reports of police and private citizens being killed by people they thought they'd incapacitated due to an unseen weapon of some kind.
     
  5. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,616
    Location:
    MN
    What ka50 said +1

    You are only allowed to use force to stop a clear and present danger .

    Self defense is one thing - making sure the bad guy is dead is a different thing all together , and rightfully so.
     
  6. Phyphor

    Phyphor Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    People's Republik of **********

    Or even better, don't approach the BG, keep your weapon trained on him, and if he reaches for something, then shoot him again. If you approach him to check for weapons, you're in his reach as well, and he might just be ready for that.


    Sounds more like urban myths than truth. Most BG's flee, stop, or die upon being shot. Normally, they don't play possum for a few minutes, then jump back into the fight (obviously, there's no percentage in such a tactic for the badguy, (from his eyes:you've been shot, wounded, the GG has a gun and has just proven he'll use it, why the hell would you want back in that fight? No matter what, you're going to jail, or the morgue.)
     
  7. Rancid Bacon

    Rancid Bacon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Cut out the middleman and double tap him to start with.
     
  8. UWstudent

    UWstudent member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    Seattle
    honestly this is what i would do...

    scream like a girl



    not much else i could do unless they're holding a gun as well..
     
  9. StrikeFire83

    StrikeFire83 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,175
    Location:
    Texas
    So I guess the concensus has come down that the situation I outlined would be tantamount to execution/murder. About what I expected, and I guess rightfully so.

    It's just that there is something almost sacred about the sanctity of one's home, and someone breaking into it, especially at night, is probably one of the worst possible transgressions a person can take against me.
     
  10. Ovid

    Ovid Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    70
    What if the BG falls to the ground, but he is still holding a weapon in his hands?
     
  11. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,438
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    The solution is to make sure he gets hit enough times in the first place. From 10-12 feet away you should be able to hit him in nothing but the head.
     
  12. rocky

    rocky Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    MI
    Why approach at all. If the BG is down keep the weapon on em, and wait for PD. If you stand over someone , ballistic evidence will show approx. what angle and how close you are. Execution is not legal. Better have a position of cover and wait. BG's don't die till they lose enough blood, unless you get a CNS shot.
     
  13. HankB

    HankB Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    5,226
    Location:
    Central Texas
    If during the initial encounter the bad guy is shot multiple times, that's just self defense. (DA: "Why did you shoot him five times?" HOMEOWNER: "He was still on his feet and a threat after four.")

    Administering a fatal coup-de-grace to a downed assailant is frowned upon, and is virtually certain to land you in legal hot water. A LOT of legal hot water.

    I wouldn't approach the bad guy AT ALL - not to kill him, not to search him, not to render assistance (bloodborne pathogens, anyone?) - I'd keep my distance. And if he bled out while I was waiting to calm down enough or have my hearing recover enough to call 911, so be it.
     
  14. springmom

    springmom Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,599
    Location:
    Spring TX
    You have the right to defend your home in Texas. However, our CHL instructor stated that once the threat is neutralized, you call the police and you also ask for an ambulance You do not want to look like you did more than you needed to. Two to the head? Yeah, that's way more than you needed to in this situation. As somebody else asked why would you want to do this? As bad as it is to have your home broken into, being charged in this case and losing your whole way of life for a moment of punishing the burglar is a lot worse.

    Springmom
     
  15. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    What happens? We visit you on visitors day and give you a cake with a file baked into it cause you my friend are now a murderer. You can only use leathal force to stop a threat you reasonably believe to be a threat to you once he is disabled he is no longer a threat, anything you do after that is assult at best murder at worst. You are better off spending more time at the range and double tapping him in the head to begin with while he is still on his feet.
     
  16. foghornl

    foghornl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,403
    You have just drowned yourself in "legal boiling oil"


    1. DO NOT APPROACH A DOWNED "BG"...EVER. He probably has a weapon you don't see.

    2. A double-tap to the head at essentially muzzle-contact distance WILL get you charged with the Highest Level of Murder there is in your state.
     
  17. Tequila_Sauer

    Tequila_Sauer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    196
    My pattern of thought on a BG coming into my place is to fire high and as much as I can while still effectively hitting what I'm shooting at, keeping a BUG ready in case I need it (most likely my CZ40).
     
  18. JAMES77257

    JAMES77257 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Colorado
    When I got my CCW, I consulted an attorney. He said that any CNS shots will be frowned on by DA. Best advice is two controlled rounds center mass, then assess the situation, If the BG is still a threat one CNS shot would not be un called for. Personally beside my bed there is an 870 police mag, loaded with 1-#6 low base, followed by 1-00 buck, the rest are slugs, my guess is that the "00" will not be needed. Also, when PD arrive, using the word "kill" instead of "stop" will instantly change the self-defense shooting into a murder investigation.

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. boofus

    boofus Guest

    If he is still holding a weapon of some type it might be defensible.
     
  20. John Hicks

    John Hicks Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    143
    You bring up a good point. What you say is as important as what you did. Words like "stop", "fear", "threat" are good; "kill", "rage", "scumbag" are not so good. The best solution (albeit very difficult I imagine) is to be cooperative, but call a lawyer.

    As far as the double-tap, if the scumbag :) wasn't reaching for a weapon or trying to fire a weapon he already had, you are in big trouble. Once the threat ends, you stop shooting. Period.
     
  21. Tequila_Sauer

    Tequila_Sauer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    196
    I think you should also blame the gun when talking to cops, kind of like the media does.

    "Well, officer I saw the man coming in, and I was wanting to speak with him and inquire as to why he was crawling through my living room window when my gun raised up in my hand and went off."
     
  22. Colonel

    Colonel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    319
    You want to kill somebody? After they're down and neutralized as a threat? Just for breaking into your house?

    Yeah, it's a pretty bad crime, and I'd be p|ssed off too. And if I was if fear for my life I'd shoot the bad guy too. But once he was down, I don't think I'd get any jollies out of zapping him in the head.

    I have a sneaky suspicion it would feel like what it was -- murder.

    Careful what you wish for...I don't think you'd like it, even if the DA didn't mind.
     
  23. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,463
    Location:
    Montreal, Québec
    Wouldn't that be Negligent Manslaughter then?
     
  24. Kurt_M

    Kurt_M Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    131
    No need to approach him once he's down. Call the cops from 10-12 feet, or better yet have your girlfriend do it. Alternatively, you could use a 12 gauge for the first shot making follow up shots a non-issue. :evil:
     
  25. TrekkieFromHell

    TrekkieFromHell Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    89
    Thats just your subconscious taking over using its training from all of those violent video games... :neener: :neener:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page