another enfield no4 mk1* with a stuck bolt

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I read the sage advice from the previous post tried it, no sucess. The bolt wont move from the closed position, the cocking tab is back, the safety is forward and will not move back to the off position.

Any advice would be welcome, (if you tell me to take it to a gunsmith, you'll be repeating the voice in my head. The one that says never loan a weapon to this friend again, and to send him the bill)

Suspecting there are plenty of you who have more experience with this weapon than I, I'm all ears!
 
Good advice to check to see if it is loaded or not. You can slip a cleaning rod inside the barrel and measure to see if it has a round in the chamber.

I would do that first, not trusting the other guy.



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Check to be sure the cocking piece is in fact ALL the way back. Pull it back manually. They have a half cock position that does lock up everything.
 
Is the ejector screw too long? Maybe loosen it and see how that works.
 
The Enfield SMLE had a built in problem. The removable bolt heads were assured failures. The field armories carried and replaced the Numbers 1,2,3, and 4. When these bolt heads fail and lock in the breech it is a shut down. Take it to a shop that knows the SMLE and has the tools. A problem with these rifles is the MILSURP bolt heads are getting rare. The #4 heads have become impossible to find.
 
The Enfield SMLE had a built in problem. The removable bolt heads were assured failures. The field armories carried and replaced the Numbers 1,2,3, and 4. When these bolt heads fail and lock in the breech it is a shut down. Take it to a shop that knows the SMLE and has the tools. A problem with these rifles is the MILSURP bolt heads are getting rare. The #4 heads have become impossible to find.

Not sure how that applies to the question at hand. How would the bolt heads "failure" lock up the action? I haven't heard of that before, would be glad to learn more about if you have info.

Would ask for more details, as what you've said doesn't correspond with what Ive learned, but lets stay on topic.

SMLE's didnt have numbered bolt heads, Enfield No 4's did. The No 1s were hand fitted to correct headspace, but didn't have numbers.

ETA: sounded grumpier than intended.
 
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Not sure, its not marked the way most of the No 4s are marked. It may be part of the acceptance stamping also. The SMLE No1 MkIII's had different size bolt heads, but they weren't marked. The armorers would try fit them, and if slightly too long would stone them to fit.

I think the Lithgows were all SMLE No1 Mk III. The SML (Short, Magazine, Lee, all individual descriptive terms of the rifle type, the previous model was a Lee Metford, based on the different rifling systems) part was dropped when the No 4 Enfield came about in the second World War, but the terms are commonly mixed up.
 
No problem. I'm suspecting that the guys friend pulled the cocking piece back by hand and only went halfway, which does in fact lock the bolt and safety up. I had it happen once, it was a head scratcher for a while until I figured it out.

Didnt mean to sound so grumpy above.
 
If you really care, milsurps.com has Peter Laidler, Enfield Armorer par excellence where you can learn about this rifle and the Enfield subgroup has a lot of information about this grand old rifle. Alternately, try Stratton's or Skennerton's book etc. The short of it is like Malamute said, the older Sht LE aka SMLE aka No. 1, Mk. 3, simply had variance in the bolt heads when manufactured and the bolt head has to be fitted to the particular barrel/receiver/bolt combination. Later, this quirk became a bit more formalized with the 0, 1, 2, or even 3 in the later No. 4 series. These more standardized bolt heads made it easier to manufacture and later to do maintenance on the No. 4. to maintain proper headspace for the rifle (headspaces on the rim). These have to be fitted to the bolt but are easier to do so than the No. 1. Mk. 3. From what I have gathered, it is a fortunate accident that the differing bolt heads allowed the rifles to have their headspace adjusted by simply going to a larger number. But, different lengths exist depending on mfg. even on the numbered heads.

The bolt head on the No. 4, Mk. 1* can be locked into place--I once bought a barrelled receiver where the bolt was locked--it turned out to be the safety which can lock the bolt forward if the gearing mechanism is not timed correctly. Easy fix is the remove the safety and the bolt should come out--remember to be careful with the I* version as it has the slot in the receiver rail for removal where the bolt head has to be popped out (older version and the No. 4. Mk. 2 have a sliding catch that releases the bolt from the receiver just behind the receiver bridge). You can google it to reinstall the safety properly as it helps to have images of the procedure so you can visualize it.

It could also be where the cocking piece is failing to fully engage--if the weapon is not loaded--manually pull the cocking piece all the way to the back and then pointing the firearm at a safe area--dry fire it and operate the bolt as you usually do. The bolt should be able to be remove.
One last, not so good possibility that I can think of, is that the guy had a case head separation, did not realize it, and then crammed a loaded round into the chamber with the remaining part of the fired cartridge. That is really a gunsmith job as removal can be exciting and noisy if not done properly.
 
A No. 4 Mk I* is not an SMLE.
"... The #4 heads have become impossible to find...." No. 4 Rifle bolt heads number from 0 to 3. No 4's.
Bolt heads don't lock. Only thing in 'em is the extractor and its spring. Nothing there to lock
"...the safety is forward and will not move back to the off position..." Sounds like your 'buddy' closed the bolt on an applied safety. Jams everything.
"...Is this the wrong one?..." Yep. That's for a No. I Mk III. Aka: SMLE.
I'd try taking the safety out first, but you may need a padded vise and a rubber mallet.
"...a case head separation, did not realize it..." Not a chance. Mag would be blown out the bottom and gases going everywhere.
 
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Well, until our original poster comes back with an update, were all just guessing and spitballing at this point.
 
Thank you everyone, success! The rifle is functioning flawlessly. As it turned out the cocking piece was not all the way back, when I slipped a slim brass rod under it and gently pried back, it moved back just enough to free things up. The original problem came when someone, who won't borrow it again, removed the bolt and did not make sure it was fully screwed on, and closed it, and when I removed the bolt, tightened it correctly and all went well from that point.

Thank you everyone, your advice was most helpful and informative!
 
fred,
Glad it was something minor. Sunray pointed out one thing above to watch for which is closing the bolt on an applied safety. This can happen especially easy if you have a floppy safety (which is simply a safety that needs to be retimed or replaced).

One other thing to watch for on the No. 4 Mk 1* is that you need to be really careful about popping the bolt out at the bolt release slot. This break in the right receiver rail occasionally has been known to cause pieces of the rail on either side of the break to chip off if you are not careful in removing the bolt as the material is really thin here. That is an expensive repair as it will affect the action of the bolt in regular firing if the receiver rails are damaged.
 
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