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Another Good Samaratan Shot

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Jeff White, Dec 10, 2015.

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  1. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Pretty clear video of a college student who decided to intervene in a robbery/kidnapping and was shot for his trouble:

    http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...5704821557255/480x270_3928765704821557255.mp4

    http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...2873374692882/480x270_2841592873374692882.mp4

    As you can see the Good Samaritan stopped his car next to the criminal's SUV and gets out to confront him. The criminal produces what appears to be a TEC 9 and shoots the Good Samaritan in the abdomen then tries to execute the Good Samaritan who is down on the pavement, but his weapon won't function.
     
  2. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    So the strict gun-control laws in the UK meant the good guy was unarmed.
     
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    This is in Louisiana from a month back. The good guy is a med student or Resident. He'll recover.
     
  4. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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  5. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    i rather suspect it was the fact that most hospitals and medical schools are gun free zones that caused the good guy to be unarmed, though in truth it may have been personal choice or finances
     
  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The whole gun-free zone idea is like the old cartoons of people with a sign taped to their back saying "Kick Me".
     
  7. ACP

    ACP Member

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    Perhaps the point of Jeff's post was, as a civilian and a good samaritan, to be aware of the consequences of going to help someone in need. Not that you shouldn't do it -- but be prepared for something more than a verbal altercation or a fist fight.

    For many of us here who CCW, we may have had gun in hand, in a concealed manner. Maybe would have called PD on a cell phone first. Others may have pepper spray and/or a folding knife. Others may be well-versed in martial arts. Some are good talkers.

    It all kinds goes to heck when a semiautomatic firearm is produced at close range and is deployed quickly. But that's the way thugs and terrorrists operate.
     
  8. ACP

    ACP Member

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  9. A Pause for the Coz

    A Pause for the Coz Member

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    The real bad part will be 5 years from now he will be involved in a murder after he is let out from prison.
    There is a reason people who commit violence have 5,6,7 felonies on their records.
    Why they keep getting out is beyond my ability to comprehend.
     
  10. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    also, i wonder how high the murder rate would be if bad guys used better guns?

    this guy would be dead instead of gut shot.
    one of the victims in the paris attack we discussed also reported the terrorist's gun malfunctioned as he tried to shoot the victim and that was the only reason he survived.
     
  11. SKILCZ

    SKILCZ Member

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    They keep getting out b/c they need to make room for the non-violent gun owners who accidentally run afoul of one of our crazy and illogical network of thousands of pointless gun control laws. It makes a lot of sense, right? Let the violent people out while you call for stricter gun control laws that will make criminals out of currently law-abiding citizens who are no threat to society. :banghead:
     
  12. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    In a location where a person wanting to help can't have a firearm, s/he doesn't have a lot of good options. The train guys were a very special case, but there were three of them vs one BG, two of them were active duty military, and BG's freedom of movement was constrained due to the close quarters. And when Stone (the biggest of the three) tried to help unarmed in a crime situation a few weeks later, he was rewarded with multiple serious stab wounds.
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Is it the quality of the guns or the level of knowledge? I remember one of the train guys being interviewed saying the terrorist had improperly inserted the magazine in his rifle and when his pistol then jammed he didn't know how to fix it. And when the researchers interviewed the Chicago criminals one of them said they don't pay attention to marksmanship, they just shoot, and only after the victim goes down they decide whether to "execute" them.
     
  14. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    There is a GREAT article about this in the latest America's First Freedom, I've been meaning to start a thread about it.
     
  15. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd like to remind everyone that this is the Strategies, Tactics and Training sub forum and that discussion of gun control is off topic here.

    I posted the videos so we could discuss the things our Good Samaritan did that contributed to his poor outcome.

    I think that we can probably safely say he jumped into a situation that he knew nothing about. It appears he saw the suspect dragging the unconscious female down the sidewalk. Think about this for a minute. It's 4 am in New Orleans. This could have been anything from a domestic dispute, to a boyfriend or husband trying to get a drunken partner back to the car and home. What did Mr. Gold know at the time he decided to intervene?

    Neither video shows us how he initially confronted Cain. But he clearly intended to stop Cain from escaping by blocking his SUV in. It's hard to tell with the gaps in the video but it looks to me like Gold stopped a kidnapping and Cain may well have satisfied himself with woman's purse and left if Gold had not blocked him in.

    I think the incident was over at 38 seconds into the second video when Cain got into his SUV with the purse and closed the door. If he could have driven off then he probably would have.

    Gold was unarmed and depending on what? Good intentions? Had he not pulled up next to the SUV and jumped out this might have turned out a lot differently. I think made Cain feel he was trapped and was going to have to do something in order to escape.

    Perhaps Gold didn't see that Cain had gotten into the SUV and closed the door. I don't know what he saw while he was driving up to the SUV. 10 seconds later and Cain would probably have been gone and Gold could have administered first aid to the owner. Had Gold driven past the SUV the same result.

    If you are going to intervene, at least be smart about it. Don't corner someone who might be armed, if he had left Cain a way out, it probably would have worked out. He would have been able to give a good description of Cain and the police could have picked him up later, as they did.....
     
  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I'm confused, Gold didn't move his car after being shot, and Cain drove away. So how blocked in was he?
     
  17. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Gold parked right next to Cain's SUV in order to confront him. Yes, Cain did drive away after he got out of the SUV and shot Gold after attempting to rob him. Gold forced the confrontation. Cain was in the SUV with the door closed when Gold pulled up. Had Gold stopped before he reached the SUV or went past it and stopped, I think Cain would have driven away. He showed every indication that he was done with the action when he took the purse from the woman and got in the SUV.

    Look at the first video. Gold drives past the street the confrontation occurs on, sees Cain dragging the girl down the sidewalk, puts his car into reverse, backs up and then drives down the street to confront Cain. At 18 seconds into the first video you can get a good look at how much room there is between Cain's SUV and the car parked in front of it. Now look at the location of the car parked on the other side of the street. I'm sure Cain had to think that Gold was trying to block him in.

    Looking back at the first video. At 25 seconds Gold walks directly in front of the SUV, places his left hand on the hood and he's holding something, (Cell phone maybe?) in his right hand.

    Unfortunately we don't see what happened next on either video. There is a gap on the second video and at 44 seconds we see Gold bent over the woman who is down on the sidewalk. At 45 seconds the door to the SUV opens and Cain exits the vehicle with the TEC-9.

    You can't tell for sure from the gaps in the video, but it looks to be like Gold was looking for Cain, he drove down what appears to be a one way street from the wrong direction, parked in the driving lane next to the SUV in what looks like an attempt to block it in, then confronts Cain.

    Educated guess on my part, but it certainly looks to me like Gold put himself in a position where Cain felt that he must deal with him or he wasn't going to escape. If Gold had simply pulled in front of the SUV that was parked in front of Cain and watched, there probably would have been a much better outcome. Or he could have driven past Cain's SUV and observed from there and that probably wouldn't have alerted Cain to the fact he was spotted.

    The girl was down on the sidewalk and Cain was in the SUV with the door closed preparing to leave the scene when Gold confronted him. Gold had no idea what he was getting into and had no idea that Cain was armed.He charged in, didn't keep anything between himself and Cain and got shot for his trouble. He went from being in a position to aid the girl to becoming a victim himself because he didn't think through how he was going to handle the situation. Cain didn't need a gun, he could have come out of the SUV with a knife or an empty handed attack and Gold wasn't ready for it.
     
  18. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    Well, there are still a lot of open questions, but considering that Cain tried to execute Gold in the coldest manner, and allegedly raped a couple at gunpoint the next night, he was arguably not finished with the lady the night he shot Gold. Once he had fired his weapon, he likely figured the sound would bring police or at least more witnesses. So he left, and there is a good likelihood that by intervening, however unadvisedly, Gold spared the girl a potential rape and/or murder. We will never know what might have been, and almost certainly will never know exactly what did happen that night. Horrifying video of my home town.
     
  19. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree, Cain took her purse, got in the SUV and closed the door. I don't think that's the actions of someone who was going to do more harm to the woman.

    Why do you get in your vehicle and close the door if you aren't going to drive away?

    It could well be that Cain's crimes after he shot Gold were simply because he figured at that point he didn't have anything else to lose.

    But here in ST&T we discuss how to handle situations like that. And it's quite obvious from the video that Gold had no idea what he was involving himself in and no idea how to confront a suspect even if his intervention had been warranted.

    Gold was in way over his head and he's very lucky to be alive.
     
  20. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    JEFF: Agree that Gold had no idea what he was getting into and no plan for how to help effectively, he just saw the girl in trouble and wanted to help. The people here with experience in these matters would know more effective ways to help. As a person without experience the one thing that stood out to me was that once Cain pulled his gun Gold just stood there with his hands up waiting for Cain to shoot him...

    DERRY: I tend to agree that Gold may have at least prevented anything worse from happening to the girl, based on his actions the next night Cain appears to be a total psychopath.

    EVERYONE: Googling I learned that thankfully Gold is recovering from his wound after being released from the hospital.
     
  21. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    Jeff, I certainly agree that Mr. Gold got involved in a situation he was not prepared for. His impulse was intrepid and noble, and I admire him for that. The sad lesson is that it is very risky to intervene in a dicey situation. Godspeed his recovery.
     
  22. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    This is one of the rare instances where a "Truck Gun" could have helped. Gold could have at least been armed when he confronted Cain, and shot back.
     
  23. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    Call 911. Take pictures or a video. Get a description, Don't force a confrontation. I agree with Jeff that the Cain might have left the scene if Gold hadn't got in the middle of the situation.

    Even if he had been armed, he could have intervened from cover behind his vehicle. He may have been a good Samaritan, but he wasn't smart about it.
     
  24. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    Average 911 response time in New Orleans is 79 minutes. Better use of time would be to contact ProjectNOLA, a network of private security cameras that can feed into the PD.
     
  25. stressed

    stressed Member

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    Thank God the thug was using hollow points in the TEC-9 (Although it looked similar to an AP9) which is why it caused it to fail. Obviously the first round went off because it was in the chamber.

    So this criminals lack of experience with said weapon saved this young man's life.
     
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