Another "help with .38 special loads" thread

Hi guys.

I just loaded up some 125gn Berry's plated flat point bullets in .38 special for my model 10. I used power pistol, 5.8 grains, CCI small pistol primers. My previous .38's with these bullets were with W231 and Tightgroup. With 231 and TG, the loads felt and shot just like I would expect a .38, accurate enough, not too loud, flashy or much kick.

Well my Power Pistol recipe, which is fairly low in my Hornady book, not starting, but near the starting load, is pretty stout. Its loud, flashy and seems to have a little more felt recoil, but that could just be the perception due to the noise and flash. I don't have a chrono, but I will chrono some of these in a few weeks.

Is this to be expected? Power pistol in my 9mm is louder and has some more flash, but in the .38 its suddenly a flame thrower. Is this ok?

All brass showed no signs of pressure, all extracted easily, and they shot well POA/POI with my fixed sights. Should I just call it good, or is there really any more room to go any hotter? Hornady lists the range for Power Pistol as 5.4-7.1, 7.1 is +p, a no-go my Mr. S&W Model 10.

Brian

 

Power Pistol is a heck of a lot slower than Tightgroup & 231..
in the neighborhood of AA 5..

 

I'm not really into modest mouse fart loads. I liked the way these power pistol rounds shot, they are just night and day different from the TG and W231 loads I'm familiar with. Is anyone using Power Pistol in .38's with any success?

 

Absolutely, Power Pistol is great if you are looking for a full house 38 load. I use it for all of my JHP and 158LSWC loads in 38 special. Thats not too hot of a load either, but it gives you an idea of what PP is capable of. I love it for the "older" low pressure cartidges when you want more power. It will burn clean and provide good velocity in calibers than run sub 25Kpsi. Its really great in jacketed 45acp loads too.

To give an example, in 38 special, Alliant says you can run 6.0gr of PP under thier speer 158gr LSWC. This is a swaged bullet. I have ran that charge under a Hornady 158gr LSWC-HP. It tends to lead a little, but I am not loading that to shoot for range use, those are reserved for social occasions, so to speak. I also load Missouri Bullet 159gr LSWC(357 Action, 18bhn) with PP too. CAUTION, the following load data is OVER MAX according to the powder manufacturer:I load those over 6.2gr of Power Pistol. One would think the .2gr would be of no difference whatsoever, but the groups on paper say something else. I shoot all of those loads out of a Ruger LCR 38. They are REALLY STOUT out of that light weight gun.

 

Never cared much for Power Pistol in low pressure cartridges and prefer to use it in the 9mm. As you note it is "flashy" and always left carbon scouring on the outside of the cases when I've used it in the .38 spl and .45 ACP. PP never did anything in the .38 spl or .45 ACP velocity wise I couldn't do as well or better with Unique.

I tried 6.3 grs of PP behind a 125gr JHP in the .38 spl. It did 1,080 fps average from a Ruger BH 4-7/8" barrel, 1,231 fps from a IMI Timberwolf carbine.

 

bfunk, what col are you seating those Berrys to?

 

Power Pistol is a great powder if you can get past the excessive noise and flash it produces. I can not so I pass on PP most times. (except for 1 special .357 Magnum load)

If you like the results you get with PP but want to avoid the noise and flash give HS-6 or AA#5 a try. Personally I like W231 and use it for most of my .38 Special ammo except for the +P stuff...

 

Any "numbered" Smith and Wesson 38 special (Such as your Model 10) will handle modern +P loads without any trouble at all.

Try some Red Dot, Titegroup or Bullseye for comparison, you'll probably be happier. Power Pistol is for fireworks.

 

Though I dearly love Red Dot in .38/.357, be aware that it is dirty...

A hundred rounds in my Blackhawk, and it is hard to see any bluing

But I kinda like it that way, and the grunge comes off with a Hoppe's dampened cloth...

 

I'm seating these to 1.445". Its an OAL I got from Accurate, and its pretty close to what Hornady uses for their 125gn XTP.

 

Ever try Bullseye? It used to be/still is the powder for .38 spl, according to many I know. It burns very quickly in a small cartridge and might minimize the blast you are seeing with a slower powder.

 

Universal Clays fits many calibers well, in 38 special it shines.

-178S

 

I love Winchester 231 in .38 special. It really works for me. Burns clean, meters well, recoil can be mild to wild. Good stuff.

 

ty for the universal tip 178s, just got some and gotta set up, looking forward to .38spl now

 

Its a small flake powder. Looks a lot like bullseye to be honest, at least the last couple bottles I had did.

If you think that muzzle blast is something, use AA#9!

 

I've used AA#7 for some fairly stout loads with 115gn XTP's that I used on IDPA (the 500 free bullets I got with my press kit). Power Pistol in 9mm is quite a bit louder, and has a whole other lever of muzzle blast, and I've never even loaded power pistol near the max.

 

I understand this, I have one pet power pistol load that seems more accurate than anything else I've used. I only shoot off hand so I can't prove it's any more accurate than any other, but it works for me, in 357mag, it also feels like I'm shooting a magnum instead of a 38 special even if I'm not at mag load.

I would expect the same would hold true for someone that is used to shooting a .38 special over .357 while using power pistol.

Yes, the flash and noice is normal, it doesn't mean there's a problem if you are sticking to published load data while using it.

Titegroup also will make a horendous flash and noice if you go to the upper end of the spectrum but PP is a little more forgiving with max loads than titegroup is.

I won't use a max load of titegroup because of this and the heat it generates just from 6 shots out of a revolver.
I like titegroup but if I want a max load in 38 or 357 I'll use a slower powder.

That being said, PP makes you feel like your at max load when you really aren't. It's really showy and load but is a good powder. Most people probably wouldn't use it load self defense ammo though.

Definantely.

 

If your looking for some good stout full 38 spcl loading go to somthing such as HS6 or Longshot. I use a lot of both for 9mm and 38 spcl, and they really get er dun!

I'm not knocking PP, it's a nice powder to work with, but as alrady stated, it has the appearance of full house, but isn't really getting the upper end MV other slower burning powder will deliver.

With either HS6, and deffinitely Longshot I can push a 125 gr. JHP to near 1400 fps. And both of those powders have been very consistent in terms of velocity and pressure signs. In this respect I commonly go over the published max loads without experiencing any excessive pressure signs. I'm not endorsing, or suggesting going beyond published data, I'm simply stating that I have, and do, often exceed the published limits with those two powders in more than one catrtidge type, especially for self defense loads.
GS

 

I'll second the vote for Universal. I load a tenth or two over the spec for .38 spec non-+P. I won't list the load here but I use it in guns chambered for .357 Mag. Gives me 940 with a 158 gr. bullet out of a 4" barrel M627. Not really all that much recoil out of the big N frame but it is very accurate, clean, and you know you've shot something.