Another suspect killed by a SWAT team in GA.
- Thread starter DMF
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griz
Member
Now I'm not an LEO, but it seems that if the police are looking for a guy and have to wait in line to arrest him, it would be an indicator that you have the right house.
Don't get it. Sounds to me like this went down more or less like it should have.
Murderer is holed up someplace, cops call SWAT team, murderer pulls gun on SWAT team, SWAT team shoots murderer.
If we could only get them to get it right all the time we'd be in business.
Murderer is holed up someplace, cops call SWAT team, murderer pulls gun on SWAT team, SWAT team shoots murderer.
If we could only get them to get it right all the time we'd be in business.
gc70
Member
Uhhh, if I read DMF's post correctly, he said that others might question or complain, but that the cops got this raid right.
Erebus
Member
Sure looks like they got it right. They tried to get him to come out peacefully but he refused to respond. Other than maybe trying to gas him out first I don't see a real problem.
But this isn't a case of someone not knowing that it's the police coming through the door and getting shot for thinking they have to defend themselves. He clearly knew what was going on and brought it on himself. It's not like they shoot on site if you surrender. Once the place is surrounded the suspect isn't getting away and barricading themselves in accomplishes nothing but to make things worse. Surrender, come out and face your day in court.
And for those that want to die instead of answering for what they have done. Shoot yourself, don't make some poor cop live with it.
But this isn't a case of someone not knowing that it's the police coming through the door and getting shot for thinking they have to defend themselves. He clearly knew what was going on and brought it on himself. It's not like they shoot on site if you surrender. Once the place is surrounded the suspect isn't getting away and barricading themselves in accomplishes nothing but to make things worse. Surrender, come out and face your day in court.
And for those that want to die instead of answering for what they have done. Shoot yourself, don't make some poor cop live with it.
DKSuddeth
Member
should we start shooting ALL suspected murderers from now on?
Granted, I only read the posted blurb of the article, but nowhere did I see that a gun was pulled on the SWAT team.
cropcirclewalker
member
I just keep seeing this visualization.....
Armored Personel Carrier busts through garage door.
Bad guy huddling behind pile of junk in corner.
Bad guy raises pistol to point at "APC"?
Officer Safety, uh, I mean APC safety.........they riddle him with bullets.
Perhaps Mr. DMF could 'splain how the bg managed to threaten the officers in the APC.
OK, OK, maybe the bg bolts out the garage. Running serpentiny down the driveway, dodging bullets and waving his pistol.
Not a safe situation as far as officer safety goes, one cop could be shooting at another on the other side of the driveway.
Can a bg outrun an APC? Don't they have like gun ports in those things?
Not trying to be critical. It just seems that there may be more to this story than is printed.
Perhaps we should lock it down till more verifiable information comes out.
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DKSuddeth
Member
well I feel like seeing the eye doctor now. thanks crop.
Master Blaster
Member
This is the appropriate use of a SWAT Team, armed violent offender.
No Knocks are not in many cases, especially when they know very little about the offender, or are relying on a criminal informant, phone tip, without doing a little covert investigation first. (old lady in Atlanta, or possible bank robber in DE , yeah my neighbor looks like that guy on the blurry photo from the bank camera but the guy has no criminal record and they break down his door at 3 am)
Or when they are arresting an offender for a non violent crime like booking bets ( thre deceased dentist in Alexandria Virginia).
No Knocks are not in many cases, especially when they know very little about the offender, or are relying on a criminal informant, phone tip, without doing a little covert investigation first. (old lady in Atlanta, or possible bank robber in DE , yeah my neighbor looks like that guy on the blurry photo from the bank camera but the guy has no criminal record and they break down his door at 3 am)
Or when they are arresting an offender for a non violent crime like booking bets ( thre deceased dentist in Alexandria Virginia).
Lone_Gunman
Member
I am not sure of the point of this thread either. If the report is correct and he was a threat to officers, and they shot him, I would say that would be appropriate.
No one has a problem with police acting appropriately and applying deadly force at the right time.
No one has a problem with police acting appropriately and applying deadly force at the right time.
I think the elesson here is that police followed procedure and common sense, they were patient and didn't feel the need to show off how proffesional they are and their room clearing skills.
This was a man wanted for murder! They gave him the benefit of doubt that hasn't been shown in recent incidents that involved minor or fabricated crimes. That resulted in deaths of innocent or unarmed individuals.
This seems to have gone right, restraint was shown and no LEO were killed or injured.
another lesson is not to point guns at APCs, the arguement that they should have waited for him to do something else is silly it's like saying that cops don't have to defend themselves when wearing vests.
This was a man wanted for murder! They gave him the benefit of doubt that hasn't been shown in recent incidents that involved minor or fabricated crimes. That resulted in deaths of innocent or unarmed individuals.
This seems to have gone right, restraint was shown and no LEO were killed or injured.
another lesson is not to point guns at APCs, the arguement that they should have waited for him to do something else is silly it's like saying that cops don't have to defend themselves when wearing vests.
hunttheevil
Member
I agree with Pedaldude. The guy had 3 hours to turn himself in. It appears he was violent bg as he was wanted in 2 different murders by 2 different agencies. I would expect the bg did something to draw fire from the Leo's since there was probably plenty of media at the barricades with zoom lenses getting the birds eye view.
cropcirclewalker
member
I think the mods need to lock this thread.
There are posters here trying to justify killing suspects.
Who needs courts anymore?
There are posters here trying to justify killing suspects.
Who needs courts anymore?
AmbulanceDriver
Member
cropcirclewalker said:
Actually, I think the posters here are arguing that an officer using deadly force in response to a threat from a suspect with a deadly weapon is justified.
And I think that they are arguing that this is one of those instances where it was the right decision to use a SWAT team (barricaded armed murder suspect).
pcosmar
member
I would have to agree, this looks like the appropriate use of SWAT. The guy IS armed and resisting. Also SWAT was called after the arrest atempt was made.
I do not like to see SWAT team used as a first response, this was not the case here.
I would say it seems a good job.
I do not like to see SWAT team used as a first response, this was not the case here.
I would say it seems a good job.
cropcirclewalker
member
I think I am witnessing the desensitization of the modern public to the violence that they see in the war on drugs and television.
This guy could be guilty as a snake. I don't know.
This guy was not John Dillinger. He was a suspect.
This guy barricaded himself in his own home.
It doesn't say he fired on them. It says he barricaded himself in his home.
I don't know exactly how to threaten someone with a pistol. Does anybody else know how?
Did he fire on them? apparently not.
Did he point it at them? At the APC? It don't say.
Did he say he had a gun? Did he threaten to use it?
Is that it? It don't say.
3 hours? Was it getting close to the end of the shift?
How long did the APC sit there before it broke down the garage door?
Are they expensive to idle? Janet Reno even waited 51 days.
What would Andy Taylor have done?
We can assume what Barney would do.
The guy coulda been wacko.
The guy coulda been on drugs.
The guy coulda been a secret agent man, like the Bourne Identity.
There are so many things that coulda been.
The guy coulda even have been innocent.
No, we will probably never know. At least a jury will never decide.
This thread should be locked.
This guy could be guilty as a snake. I don't know.
This guy was not John Dillinger. He was a suspect.
This guy barricaded himself in his own home.
It doesn't say he fired on them. It says he barricaded himself in his home.
I don't know exactly how to threaten someone with a pistol. Does anybody else know how?
Did he fire on them? apparently not.
Did he point it at them? At the APC? It don't say.
Did he say he had a gun? Did he threaten to use it?
Is that it? It don't say.
3 hours? Was it getting close to the end of the shift?
How long did the APC sit there before it broke down the garage door?
Are they expensive to idle? Janet Reno even waited 51 days.
What would Andy Taylor have done?
We can assume what Barney would do.
The guy coulda been wacko.
The guy coulda been on drugs.
The guy coulda been a secret agent man, like the Bourne Identity.
There are so many things that coulda been.
The guy coulda even have been innocent.
No, we will probably never know. At least a jury will never decide.
This thread should be locked.
pcosmar
member
cropcirclewalker
I don't understand your objection.
I will be one of the first to question No Knock raids. I get highly upset when I hear of an UNARMED suspect being shot.
I have little sympathy for a suspect who resists arrest with a firearm.
He had 3 hours to surrender, his choice.
The police did their job, and correctly, in this case. I don't see your point
I don't understand your objection.
I will be one of the first to question No Knock raids. I get highly upset when I hear of an UNARMED suspect being shot.
I have little sympathy for a suspect who resists arrest with a firearm.
He had 3 hours to surrender, his choice.
The police did their job, and correctly, in this case. I don't see your point
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Looks Like a Good Shoot
But . . .
The "suspect" was Khalid and the murder victim was Asim
Without wishing to read too much into that, I wonder if this story has another dimension.
Them ain't common Bubba names in GA.
But . . .
The "suspect" was Khalid and the murder victim was Asim
Without wishing to read too much into that, I wonder if this story has another dimension.
Them ain't common Bubba names in GA.
There are posters here trying to justify killing suspects.No they aren't. They are saying the use of deadly force against a person who presents an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death is justified. No one is saying suspects can be killed on a whim.So if someone threatens you with serious bodily injury or death you're going to wait for a court ruling before you defend yourself? That's rhetorical, because we all know you won't. Why do you expect it to be different for cops than it is for you?
However, thanks for showing your true colors once again, cropcircle. No matter what the situation, or the outcome, you will always whine about whatever action the police take.
How did I know when I posted that you would whine about this?
Erebus
Member
The only thing I can see that they could have done to maybe get this guy out without an armed confrontation is throw gas canisters in there. That might have gotten him to surrender. It might have resulted in a fire, especially in a garage. I keep gasoline cans and a spare propane tank in my garage. There is also seasoned firewood, and some big pieces of cardboard I keep for putting under my car when I work on it and I might spill fluids. In fact you throw a gas canister in my garage and you're going to see one heck of a fire and likely an explosion or four.
When seeing nothing glaringly wrong with what the police did I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see or hear different. Had they immediately stormed the house and shot him I may be asking why they didn't wait. But they waited 3 hours and he didn't respond at all. They could have waited forever but it doesn't sound like this guy was ever going to give up. Probably would have killed himself.
Anyone have any idea how many long stand offs result in suicide? I would like to know if there is any correlation in how long they wait to the number of suspects that suicide.
Just curious if more suspects have been killed by their own hand because they waited all day versus the number of suspects that have been killed by the police when they stormed. Not that I think policy should be based on it as every situation is different but the numbers would be interesting to me.
When seeing nothing glaringly wrong with what the police did I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see or hear different. Had they immediately stormed the house and shot him I may be asking why they didn't wait. But they waited 3 hours and he didn't respond at all. They could have waited forever but it doesn't sound like this guy was ever going to give up. Probably would have killed himself.
Anyone have any idea how many long stand offs result in suicide? I would like to know if there is any correlation in how long they wait to the number of suspects that suicide.
Just curious if more suspects have been killed by their own hand because they waited all day versus the number of suspects that have been killed by the police when they stormed. Not that I think policy should be based on it as every situation is different but the numbers would be interesting to me.
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