Another Unarmed Guard Killed

[RustyShackelford]

armed/unarmed security officers in medical centers

I've worked in the security/LE career field for nearly 18 years, about 4 yrs of that was in medical/hospital areas. The posts here have made several good points; few companies/managers want to pay more for guards/officers with more training/skills. An officer may be limited in the use of force options in a medical center too. As an 085/Security Guard, I worked in a VA(US Veterans Affairs) medical center in a major city. I did not carry any weapons but the VA police officers I worked with had PR-24s and OC spray. The VA later issued 92D 9mm pistols to all sworn police officers too. In my assisted living center job, I had a small OC spray unit but no other weapons. The security job was next to the campus of UVA(University of Virginia). I had no real problems there but once dealt with 2 drunk UVA students pointing a rifle out a window, . The rifle turned out to be a BB gun but it gave me a real charge. The local PD handled that incident.

For the most part, I'd have armed/trained security officers if I ran a medical center staff. I've seen so many incidents that warrant better protection that it worth the money to hire armed security. Guards/officers should have OC spray, taser(X26)/energy weapons, and DA only pistols. Proper training and supervision would prevent many future incidents.

RS

 

[LAK]

Stillamarine

As a former Security Supervisor in a hospital setting I can tell you that armed officers are sometimes just not feasible. This incident aside a lot of times Security Officers deal with drunks and mentally disturbed individuals. Trying to hold down a drunk on a gurney while nurses strap him down is dangerous enough as it is. I personally would be hesitant to do it with a firearm strapped to my side. Having said that the hospital I worked at we were completly unarmed meaning no self defense weapons. I believe Batons, OC, and Tasers have a place in hospitals.

Likewise and agree.

Having even unarmed security officers - or peace officers - dealing with mental patients is wrong to start with. In the old days trained medical orderlies would handle this kind of thing, while the doctors, nurses etc handled the their business. But there are no medical orderlies anymore, at least in the hospitals I have seen in the last ten years, and hospital staff often seem to think that this is a security related function. I have had to put them straight on this at times a "not medically qualified to deal with mental patients and not able to assume the liability involved".

Having said that it was an armed contract and that was the way the hospital administrators wanted it to stay. A not uncommon ER scenario is a gunshot patient that arrives by ambulance or car - followed by another shooter or two arriving to try and finish the job.

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[Nick4581]

I did security work when I got out of the Army did several unarmed positions and had the opportunity to meet several security guards. Some where decently trained professionals even former or current Peace Officers who took their job seriously most where just untrained sheep who put into any emergency situation would be absolutely worthless. Many security companies are just concerned with putting bodies in a uniform they receive poor training at best and are sent out to their job sites. Here in Texas most businesses who need real security hire off duty Peace Officers because they know that the Security companies put out a poorly trained product often the companies themselves are less then professional organizations as well.

Many of the Armed security officers I have seen have no idea on how to set up a duty belt where their holster should be situated where their pouches should be or where their keepers should be placed. These all have specific locations for a reason. Their Pistols are not maintained and most of the individual S/O’s only practice with it when they absolutely must for requalification and cant tell the basics of their firearms sometimes even firearm safety in general. If these individuals had a worthwhile amount of training they would know these things. Unfortunately because so little further training is required most will not seek it and in my opinion many S/O’s do not have the training necessary to not be a liability to themselves or their client.

When I did bother to take the class for Commissioned S/O or “Level III” training here in Texas they did not cover important things that should be part of this training. They did not cover weapons retention at all which I feel is just as important as your ability to employ the weapon. They spent more time reinforcing the idea that a Security Officer is not a Peace Officer and that the general rule of thumb for weapons use applied. They wiz you through a poor at best qualification run at the range and give you the states blessing to carry a tool that is very dangerous in poorly trained hands. Many of the S/O’s in the class fired a gun for the first time that day and will most likely never practice again unless they stick in the field long enough to have to requal.

For the most part I see the Security Industry here in Texas to be disgusting the Officers are poorly trained if at all often the companies are less then professional and in most cases Armed S/O’s are a liability to themselves and their client. The Industry does not want to provide adequate training because then they would have to pay the S/O more money. Their hiring standards are lackluster at best often taking any reject they can squeeze into a uniform making them unarmed S/O’s often putting these individuals into more danger then they could possibly handle. In the end the Individual S/O gets the hose like the S/O who was shot by this individual I would say it’s a safe bet that his company does not provide training in repelling aggressors nor does the state require it.

The only reason I know these things now is because I opted to become a Peace Officer where this training is mandated even though it is not nearly enough of it at least its something to start with. However now that I have received this training I look back at the security industry and just shake my head its not the Individual Security Officers faults they are doing their job the best they can and trying to put food on the table however the industry and the state has failed to provide them with the training they need to do their job as a professiona and in doing so put their lives at risk like the Security officer recently killed.

 

[akodo]

If you aren't worried enough about your property to hire armed guards/security, then you don't need security on your property

I disagree. Property is property. If the business owner is there and armed, he cannot use deadly force. If police are there, they will not use deadly force just to stop property damage/theft. Armed security is no different, they cannot use deadly force to prevent theft.

The truth of the matter is most security guards are present to prevent break-ins, shoplifting, loitering, etc etc. These are not times when a weapon is needed.

The armed security guard is different from the unarmed in 4 ways. 1)the firearm is there and just it's presence can make a difference to those planning something or caught in the act. 2)Often security details are in dark areas late at night with little foot traffic in high crime areas, a gun allows the security guard to defend himself. 3) the armed guard could potentially use deadly force to protect a customer. and 4) if an armed guard is taken out, he provides the attacker with a weapon.


Their Pistols are not maintained and most of the individual S/O’s only practice with it when they absolutely must for requalification and cant tell the basics of their firearms sometimes even firearm safety in general. If these individuals had a worthwhile amount of training they would know these things. Unfortunately because so little further training is required most will not seek it This is a common complaint leveled against many many armed types, from armored car personel, to police and sherrif's deputies, baliffs, and the rest.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Nick4581 said "Many security companies are just concerned with putting bodies in a uniform..."

Unfortunately, many police departments are similarly afflicted.