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antique black powder cartridge firearms

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by andrewstorm, Jan 3, 2011.

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  1. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    I have been wanting a antique cartridge revolver for some time,most colts are e...spensive, any suggestions? 44 40-45 colt-44 russian-38 sw?:cool:
     
  2. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    You might find plenty of satisfaction with one of the replic/reproduction Colt SAA or SA Bisley Model or Remington Cartridge Revolvers in .45 Colt .44-40 or other, as made by 'UBERTI' or other Companies.


    I have a few of those, and I have been very happy with them.

    You can cast your own Boolits, Load your own Black Powder Cartridges, and have a lot of fun with them...or, use off the Shelf Ammunition as well.

    They are well made, serious Guns, and very affordable, especially when used.

    One can find them on 'Gunbroker' or sometimes in local Pawn Shops or Gun Shows.


    Same is true of the Cap & Ball Revolver reproductions for that matter.


    But, if you are dead set on having a 'period' genuine Antique Big Bore Revolver of the Black Powder Cartridge era, to get anything in halfway good condition, tends to be expensive, and or, a matter of luck, persistence, and study...and more luck from more persistence, and even then, it is still likely going to be pretty expensive!


    Lol...
     
  3. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    reproduction oldies..................

    ....Don't appeal to me as much as the real mccoy,anyone shoot their oldie colt or SW,and load their own black or sub???????:cool:
     
  4. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    At some point I have shot most of the antiques I have owned. Some I used in competition and others I have hunted with. Once replicas became established and the quality improved, I switched to those when I could as it was a bit easier to modify them to what was needed. I still use an 1890 Winchester, an 1895 Winchester, a Burnside carbine, a Trapdoor carbine, and a couple of others but mostly I have switched to replicas for my revolvers. In all of mine, I use blackpowder and cast lead.

    Anything in particaulr you are looking for? Sometimes the model of firearm dictates the cartridge.
     
  5. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    Like Strawhat I have loaded black powder cartridges for some of my antique revolvers. It's nice to have them in shooting condition but the lack of parts keeps me from doing a lot of shooting of the antiques. With all of the quality reproductions available, loading with BP you get the same experience without risking a costly antique.
     
  6. DutchmanDick

    DutchmanDick Member

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    Don't discount the rimfire or pinfire guns, if you're willing to fiddle around with reloading. Reloadable rimfire cases that use .22 acorn blanks for primers, and reloading kits, are available from:

    http://www.hc-collection.com/

    I have a S&W #2 that was made in 1864 that I got for under $800. Had to have a new split-spring made for the cylinder bolt (laser cut from spring steel at work), and it was refinished at some point, but it has a good bore and is mechanically functional. Other reloadable rimfire cases, in .38, .44, and .56 Spencer, are available from Dixie Gunworks. They can't be used in repeaters but are fine in revolvers and single-shots.
     
  7. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    thanks

    i love any new way of loading ,and the ingenious method of loading rim-fire cartridges is amazing,ill have to go tell my know it all gun smith,that you can load rim fire if you got enough euros:cool:
     
  8. Hedning

    Hedning Member

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    Iv sold all of my repro BP guns. All I shoot now is original ones. I find that a lot more fun.

    In the revolver department I would stay away from Colt. Way to expensive and over rated. My first old timer was a Smith Wesson model 3 Russian. The bore was no way near shiny, but it has strong rifling through out. And it shoots 2" groups at 25m. You can find a decent Model 3 for like $1100.

    In the cap n ball department I would go for a Reminton NMA 1858. There are lots of them, and you can be lucky to find a good shooter for a good price. Doesnt have to look like Angelina Jolie. If the bore is like 5-6 on a scale to 10, you got a good enough shooter. My favorite cap n ball is the Rogers & Spencer. Dont have one at the time, but I will. When looking for a Rem 1858 buy the one thats not functioning. Parts are all over for those. I got a Remington Navy .36. Got it for $500. Auction text claimed that it had a loose action and barrel stop didnt work. Dixie gun works has new repro springs for the barrel stop. The loose action was just a worn cylinder pin. A total of $10 to fix it. The bore of mine looks like an old female russian sledge thrower, but it still is accurate enough to win MLAIC competitions.

    Rifle.... find a good Springfield trapdoor. You will not regret it. You can find those all over the US. A $900 trapdoor with an excelent bore makes it possible to shoot head size targets at 300m all day long.

    Its a bit hard on finances to purchase the old irons, but to me there is no better way to spend money....Besides, the value dont sink. Its an investmet. Good argument to use when the females in the house start whining...

    If you ever regret getting your self an old original iron Ill walk across Wisconsin butt naked.
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Smaller guns are less expensive. You can get a pretty good .32 or .38 at a shooter price.
     
  10. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    oldies but goodies.........wheres the parts

    I'm sold on oldies,but the replicas seem to have different parts? I thought uberti had exact replicas of the 1858 rem,colt peace maker,schooled,ect.wouldn't the parts fit,or couldn't the parts like cylinders ,barrels,springs,Ive heard or guys in the 50,s fitting their revolvers with new everything,except the frame,so they could shoot smokeless ammo thru the black powder frame ,Even still ,not a good idea, and definitely depreciates the antique. thanks Jim,and you are correct the small SW top breaks are very reasonable,and true antique Americana ,I can hardly wait for spring and ground hog season, A trapdoor springfield sounds like fun,black powder perfection Ill have to save up for that one,
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  11. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    Hi andrewstorm,


    I have no idea why, but, I thought you were asaking about Black Powder era Cartridge Revolvers.


    Far as Rifles go, of all sorts, there are enless 'reasonable' priced 'Originals' out there one could acquire an example of, Load for, and shoot to one's Heart's content for greatly less outlay initially than generally, one would have to lay out for a good condition Black Powder era big bore Colt or S & W or MH or Remington, or H&A etc. Revolver.

    .
    I guess I just had Revolvers on the Brain ( as usual...) Lol...
     
  12. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    oboyten

    Yes I was asking about them specifically,and I will purchase one soon,any thing good or bad about Belgian copies,any advice is appreciated :D
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    I don't know of any Belgian repros being imported at this time, but someone else may have better info. AFAIK, most of the current repros are Italian.

    Jim
     
  14. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    jim I was refering to original copies of scofields ect.

    made in belgium around 1880,liege proofing house marks,sold for half of the price of smith and wesson,or colt, Ive heard someone say they were as good as the originals,....:cool:
     
  15. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    SOME of the Belgian copies were as good as the US models. Some were cheap copies butb if it was made in Belgium, it had to be proofed before it could be sold so theoretically, it should have been safe. Firing with corrosive primers and powders may have changed that.
     
  16. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    corrosive berdan primers

    Most of the belgians I have seen are in very good condition for 125 year old guns,mabe the steele was from switzerland,the schofield copys look much more robust not much rust,
     
  17. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    I just took out my 1888 British Bulldog yesterday....six shot .38 S&W. Aloxed home cast with 16 gr. of Triple Seven.Yee haw!
     
  18. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    bulldog

    38 sw blackpowder cartridges? whats your mv with 16 grain 777,and do you use fffg or ffg?
     
  19. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Is this about the .38 Special round?

    Are you fellows talking about the .38 Special or the smaller .38 S&W cartridge?
    From what I gather the useful case capacity of the .38 S&W is less than 10 grains volume of powder at .62 cc, while the useful case capacity of the .38 Special is 1.15 cc or 17 volumetic grains of powder.*

    andrewstorm, if you want to see chronograph data for loading about 16 grains of 777 into the .38 Special cartridge, then see Oyeboten's post #24 in the following thread:

    Range Report: Black Powder .38 S & W 'Special'

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=483583

    It's important to note that the .38 S&W is different from the .38 Special. Even though some folks do refer to the .38 Special as the .38 Smith & Wesson Special, to avoid confusion the "Special" part of the cartridge name shouldn't be omitted. Please correct me if I'm wrong about which cartridge it is that's being posted about, the .38 Special and not the .38 S&W.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_S&W

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special


    * http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Revolvers&action=display&thread=1550
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  20. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    In looking back, I may have had inconsistent compression on the 777, and or, had a tiny bit OF compression on some rounds, and, none on others.

    I was just learning! Lol...


    My BP proper Rounds, I compressed the bejeeeezeees out of.

    The 777 I was trying to j-u-s-t Seat the Bullet onto it, and, to have no compression, and, this was less certain as for being consistent.


    I was not yet understanding the list of variables, in accounting for FPS variaitons of a string.


    Oh, golly...what fun...


    I love Black Powder Cartidges in old or newer Revolver.


    I finally got a few Cans of 'Swiss' Powder, but, been so swamped with Work and family stuff, I have not done any re-loading in quite a few months.

    The Swiss would be a good bet for the .38 S&W Ct'g, as well as for the .38 Special methinks, especially with good compression...and, a good bet for any BP Cartridge, for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  21. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    I had slight compression on all my Triple Seven loads, and was a little worried about shooting them, as they made my Webley and Scott jump like a .357, but the little Bulldog held together just fine.
     
  22. andrewstorm

    andrewstorm member

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    38 s&w pre 1898 cartridges.......

    ....Was what i was refering to,and 750-800 fps mv sounds good for a cow boy load out of a baby russian, 777 can have different velocitys from batch to batch ,I make shure i get a new can every year,then use mild compression.
     
  23. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I think that you really meant "Special"


    How can 16 grains of powder be loaded into a .38 S&W case if it won't fit?
    16 grains will only fit into the .38 S&W Special case.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  24. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    fits just fine...20gr. will fit in a .38 special.
     
  25. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    But the point is that the word "Special" was omitted which indicates a different cartridge and which leads to some confusion about identifying which one it is. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
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