Any American citizens of hispanic/latino background here?

[Cousin Mike]

Past racism or not, I see it in a different way. We're not facing the racism of the past, and as stated here there are a lot of Latino's that aren't happy with this.. What does that tell you?

I've got too much respect for what my ancestors stayed here through to go against this country. I got a brother in Iraq, right now, fighting for this country. There are Mexicans who are in our army, fighting for this country to become citizens! Not so they can send all their money back to Mexico. They love this country as much as anyone else.

And I've got too much respect for myself to join up with people who hate me (illegals), and further their agenda in this country because we've been victims of racism in this country in the past... I know racism well. And this thing with the illegal aliens, by and large, is NOT racism. It's common sense.

You want racism, crazed_ss? Walk your black self down a Mexican street in East L.A. and see how welcome you are to join anything... If you survive... And FWIW, everytime I see the "N" word in print, it's always on some little Mexican gangbangers website.. Fool yourself if you want to. These people hate you just as much as any white person 100 years ago ever did.. and to think otherwise is just fooling yourself.

This is about our country. Minimum wage is the exact same now as it was when I got my very first job at 11 years ago - but gas is 3-4x as expensive, like everything else.. This has to stop. You'd side with folks who want to turn this place into a 3rd world country, when your own countrymen are losing their jobs and having to choose between paying bills and feeding their kids?


Apples and airplanes, if you ask me. These people make a mockery of our culture comparing this crap to the civil rights movement. As black man who knows his own history, I fail to see the logic displayed here. Chalking this up to being racially motivated is just shortsighted - and any black person who would side with illegal invaders is a traitor of the highest order to his own people, his heritage, our struggle, and his country.

Get that chip off your shoulder, brother.

I'd just like to remind you that this is coming from a black man with a mexican girlfriend. I suggest anyone who wants to help turn this place into Mexico fly their ass down there and walk around for a few days... You'll kiss the ground when you come back... IF you come back.

 

[longeyes]

In Federal court in Los Angeles right now there's a case involving a group of Latino gangbangers--yeah, the gang's a pack of illegals--who were systematically targeting black people in Highland Park. Not other gangbangers, ordinary citizens whose "crime" was that they were black. The vatos had decided that there was no room for blacks there, that it was their barrio for their people only. They killed some folks. Yes, my friends, we've got ethnic cleansing right here in River City. Let's not be blind to what's really going on, just because the mainstream media dare not report the ugly truth.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

would it be your assertion...

that behavior like that is specific to one race/group?

 

[longeyes]

Of course not.

But let's address the problems where they are, not where they were.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

you then believe

that it is confined to hispanics only at the current time? specifically illegal hispanics?(and i'm gonna asssume none of the gang bangers are legal fo the sake of this discussion)

 

[Cousin Mike]

Of course not... But at the same time, I don't know of any other group randomly killing and attacking black people in the United States at this time. Blacks and Mexicans are having big problems in a lot of places... It's not just L.A. - Philadelphia comes to mind as another city that's having big problems... and Philly is almost 50% black.

And of course, anyone is welcome to walk around the west side of my city. FWIW, I don't live around the greatest neighborhood but I'm at ease amongst my neighbors.

I don't even travel 1 block west of downtown.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

true

We had a problem in DC with korean merchants being warred upon at many levels , from thuggery to more subtle ways ,including picket lines manned in some cases by nation of islam guys and in others by chistian ministers. In some cases their motives are questionable

I know what you mean about where to walk . I could look out my window see the whitehouse and 2 blocks away was a dmz.

 

[Biker]

Here's to a dose of reality from Cousin Mike...

Biker

 

[longeyes]

[so you believe] that it is confined to hispanics only at the current time? specifically illegal hispanics?(and i'm gonna asssume none of the gang bangers are legal fo the sake of this discussion)

This kind of terrorism--for that is really what this is--springs out of collective hatred and racism. It's tribal and it's also political. Unfortunately, the locus of the political fervor and furor these days lies mainly in the "Reconquista" movement, fomented by radicals from the Mexican and American left and various loonytune pro-Aztlan "populists." Tell people they are oppressed and entitled enough and you prepare them for just about anything. We don't need to go from brown power to "brownshirts."

 

[Cousin Mike]

Thanks Biker...

I got some more reality for any brother who thinks the Mexicans are on "our" side...

Channa Cook, a teacher at the Los Angeles Center for Enriched Studies, said that even in her school, routinely regarded as one of the best in Los Angeles County, black students each year skip school on May 5 -- Cinco de Mayo -- the day when Mexicans celebrate a 19th-century military victory over France. Mexican gangs have warned in graffiti that they will shoot African Americans attending school that day.

"My first year here, I didn't believe it, but the students told me, 'No, Miss Cook, if you come to school you're going to get shot,' " said Cook, who is African American. "When I arrived at class, all the black kids had stayed home."

You can read the article from the link below...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/20/AR2006022000976_pf.html

I'm tellin' ya _ss, these folks ain't our friends... I'm really going to ask you, as a black man, and an American... to rethink your position on this.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

it appears

that thinga are different on the west coast than here. then again i live in sticks now might be part of it

 

[Biker]

Hopefully this isn't jacking the thread...


http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/ne...ck_activist_plans_spanish_law_06_09100058.htm

Biker

 

[TX35]

Well put Cousin Mike , well put.....

 

[Ezekiel]

This is about our country. Minimum wage is the exact same now as it was when I got my very first job at 11 years ago - but gas is 3-4x as expensive, like everything else.. This has to stop. You'd side with folks who want to turn this place into a 3rd world country, when your own countrymen are losing their jobs and having to choose between paying bills and feeding their kids?

You're damned right this is about our country, but you've not identified the cause, you've pointed out a symptom.

Countrymen are losing jobs because they feel entitled to them and refuse to move or accept lower wages. Such is NOT "free enterprise" nor is it uber "American." (Get some skills!)

What, exactly, do you mean by 3rd World Country? Do you really think there is a cohesive and recognized PLAN here? That's tin-foil hat country, friend. This is nothing beyond rabble kicking at the King's gates because the king has been a self-righteous ass of an oppressor due to entitlement.

You're mad because folks are having to choose between bills or food? Because they refuse to work for minimum wage? Exactly whose fault is that? This isn't complex: don't have kids and/or cut out the big screen television that is used as a screening room for soap operas. Can't pay for gas? "Take the bus."

I respect an illegal immigrant, living with 12 others, who comes here and holds a low-wage job far more then your average trailer-trash welfare queen, with five kids, who gets subsidized cable TV and Internet for "educational purposes." Frankly, there are gazillions(tm) more "Americans" sucking the life out of this nation then any percentage of illegal immigration. If citizens would actually work, there'd be no jobs for illegals.

Illegal immigration is a symptom, American ENTITLEMENT (world wide) is the disease. :banghead:

 

[Biker]

Well then, we should, at the *minimum*, treat the symptoms. And BTW, if anyone deserves to suck off the American system, is is an...*American*.

Biker

 

[Cousin Mike]

Countrymen are losing jobs because they feel entitled to them and refuse to move or accept lower wages. Such is NOT "free enterprise" nor is it uber "American." (Get some skills!)

We're a hell of a lot more entitled to jobs in our own country than people who illegally cross our borders. You would debate that?

What, exactly, do you mean by 3rd World Country?

Mexico... or any other country south of this border sending their people up here by the millions to take our jobs and send American money back to their home countries.

That's tin foil hat country, friend.

Uhhh okay...

You're mad because folks are having to choose between bills or food? Because they refuse to work for minimum wage? Exactly whose fault is that?

No... I'm mad that the minimum wage has not risen in over 10 years because the illegals are working for $3 an hour, and Americans cannot compete... It's not about refusing to work for minimum wage... It's about the minimum wage being no longer sufficient to support Americans. Illegals are working for far less than minimum wage... Americans can't live on $3.00 an hour... A mexican can live like a king on those wages once the money is transferred... Especially with 12 people making the same wage, cash, everyday living in the same house. They are cheating the system.

Dude, where the HELL have you been these last 10 years?!?!

This isn't complex: don't have kids and/or cut out the big screen television that is used as a screening room for soap operas. Can't pay for gas? "Take the bus."

Wow... you're really a shining light of brilliance on an otherwise dim conversation...

Let me get this straight... We're supposed to not have children, and ride the bus, because illegals are ruining our economy and way of life?

I see...

respect an illegal immigrant, living with 12 others, who comes here and holds a low-wage job far more then your average trailer-trash welfare queen, with five kids, who gets subsidized cable TV and Internet for "educational purposes." Frankly, there are gazillions(tm) more "Americans" sucking the life out of this nation then any percentage of illegal immigration. If citizens would actually work, there'd be no jobs for illegals.

Illegal immigration is a symptom, American ENTITLEMENT (world wide) is the disease.

I don't respect anyone who would live like an animal, and do so only for the expressed purpose of exploiting a nation and it's dollar value before heading home having cheated our system to better themselves... But then again, I love my country and it's people.

YMMV.

Smells like somebody is an employer of illegals to me... You offer the same excuses as the big business lobbies.

Anyone else smell that?

 

[longeyes]

America began changing, radically, back in '65: Viet Nam, LBJ's Great Society, Ted Kennedy's "immigration reform" bill. The rest is history. The "counter-culture" turned into the Establishment and now run most of the "arts and letters" fields, from entertainment to media to law to education. Fortunately, this nation has a lot of creative talent and hard-work citizens who have kept plugging away, but what we are seeing is the Great Inertia that began in '65 finally beginning to slow down the American Dynamo. No wonder we are all increasingly frustrated and angry.

Welfare has proven ultimately toxic to everyone who's come near it. That means those who take it and those who pay for it. Those who have benefited from it most are the government worker class, who have managed to turn it into a perpetual upper-middle-class gig that the rest of us have to subsidize.

Interesting how just when we were on the verge of eliminating practically all poverty and lifting most Americans into the middle-class, including blacks, Someone Up There felt the need to start importing more poverty. Twenty-five years later we have a vast new welfare class, both takers and givers. And don't think the 12 Mexicans living in one house aren't getting government subsidies. The "hard-working" illegal Mexicans have plenty of dependents eating from the public trough, enough to cost my state over $10 billion a year (and counting.)

 

[Ezekiel]

We're a hell of a lot more entitled to jobs in our own country than people who illegally cross our borders. You would debate that?

Hell yes, because the jobs are there: self-righteous and indignant "Americans" just refuse to work them. There is your issue, not folks who will actually WORK said jobs.

Mexico... or any other country south of this border sending their people up here by the millions to take our jobs and send American money back to their home countries.

That doesn't make them 3rd World Countries, that makes them pretty ingenious. Our job? "Compete." You know, "skills?" Perhaps some level of ingenuity that makes American workers better then "cheap labor?"

If an American worker's level of talent is such that he can be readily replaced by a non-English speaking immigrant (legal or no), the issue is with the American worker.

No... I'm mad that the minimum wage has not risen in over 10 years because the illegals are working for $3 an hour

That's not the reason [for the lack of wage hike]. Heck, were your analysis true, it could be readily argued that "cheap labor" has reset what the REAL minimum wage actually is for non-skilled labor and folks should be damned happy for what they get. I know I'm not interested in paying GED-level work talent what the "approved" wage is, now.

It's not about refusing to work for minimum wage... It's about the minimum wage being no longer sufficient to support Americans. Illegals are working for far less than minimum wage... Americans can't live on $3.00 an hour...

The minumum wage is no longer sufficient due to our debtor society, not inherently because of the amount of wages brought in. America created this problem. In fact, do you not find it curious that -- as YOU say -- illegals can readily live on $3 hourly but "Americans" cannot? I think such says something about the Americans, not the other way around.

Let me get this straight... We're supposed to not have children, and ride the bus, because illegals are ruining our economy and way of life?

Children are NOT an entitlement. (In fact, most Americans should decidedly NOT reproduce.) In addition, illegals are what, specifically, keep this economy afloat for these "poor types" who desire "big families" that you appear to be defending. No illegals and a potato will cost $5. So, hell yes, pretty please, with sugar on top: Ride the bus.

I don't respect anyone who would live like an animal

Ah yes, "the truth comes out."

But then again, I love my country and it's people.

Then, as they say in the vernacular, they/we should "nut up," accept the full responsibility for causing these issues -- as I do/have/will -- and get some skills to overcome them. That is the only REAL answer.

 

[longeyes]

You know, Ezekiel, you are right. Americans are fools. Maybe after WW II we should have done what the Romans did: turned all of the defeated into slave-workers and demanded tribute. Maybe instead of building up the rest of the world economically, spreading our values and our technology, we should have made sure we raked in all the wealth possible. Maybe right now, we should be playing a game of nuclear blackmail with most of the world, not paying for the West's military expenses. Yeah, you're right, Americans are stupid.

Most Americans shouldn't reproduce? But Mexicans should, profligately--and send the stupid Americans the bill?

The problem with capitalism and free markets is that the vitally important component of values is overlooked. Yeah, we owe our own citizens our support first, because we share the same values and culture and are the same community. When has Mexico ever come to our aid? We owe them nothing, and most Americans get that, even if the elites, who profit from the cheap labor and the destruction of our middle-class, do not.

Keep preaching your gospel, Ezekiel. A reckoning is coming.

 

[Ezekiel]

Humorous retort!

Keep preaching your gospel, Ezekiel. A reckoning is coming.

I'm brown and speak Spanish.

 

[ramis]

I respect an illegal immigrant, living with 12 others, who comes here and holds a low-wage job far more then your average trailer-trash welfare queen, with five kids, who gets subsidized cable TV and Internet for "educational purposes." Frankly, there are gazillions(tm) more "Americans" sucking the life out of this nation then any percentage of illegal immigration. If citizens would actually work, there'd be no jobs for illegals.

I'm all for getting rid of the welfare state! Where do I sign up? How about Social Security too while we are at it?

A lot of people in America are lazy, but our welfare state enables them be lazy. Lazy American's = cheap Latino labor.

I'm not Hispanic. I work with a several of guys that are Honduran. They work hard and show to work on time. One guy speaks English and the rest can only say yes or no. I don't know if they are here legally or not. I have no problem with them. But when 11-30 million(whatever the real number is) people come into a country with a culture completely different from there own, there is going to be problems.

ramis

edit: IBTL

 

[Ezekiel]

A lot of people in America are lazy, but our welfare state enables them be lazy. Lazy American's = cheap Latino labor.

BINGO!

Okay folks, we have a Bingo, let's roll right into a blackout...

 

[longeyes]

I'm brown and speak Spanish.

No, you're kidding. Yeah, I figured. I'm white and I speak Italian. So what?

Here's the thing: if you live in America, you should be for America first, you should pull for your fellows Americans, and try to help solve the problems that all Americans share. You've got to decide if you're an American or if you're something else. It's all the people wavering about the "something else" that is getting people riled up.

Blacks have a right to bitch about how they've been disproportionately screwed-over since illegal immigration began accelerating twenty years ago. I blame our government for this: they have tolerated lawbreaking by our businesses for the sake of the holy buck.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Ezekiel:

There is just so much flawed, backwards logic in that post, I don't even have the energy to debate it... But I'm going to anyways. You're SO far on the wrong side of this argument that it would almost be funny... if you didn't really believe the things you are saying...

I noticed that the one thing you didn't argue was the assumption that you employ illegals..

First off...

Children are NOT an entitlement. (In fact, most Americans should decidedly NOT reproduce.)

Who the HELL do you think you are? That statement is almost so Nazi-ish in sentiment that I won't even touch it. You're starting to sound like a nutcase.

self-righteous and indignant "Americans" just refuse to work them. There is your issue, not folks who will actually WORK said jobs.

You're wrong again... whatta surprise there.

Americans with self respect and bills to pay do not refuse to work. Said Americans refuse, however, to work for $3 an hour, and I have a hard time blaming them. No American can support themselves, let alone a family, on $3 an hour... It's not about refusing to work. It's about refusing to make a slave of yourself to make some jackass business owner rich, while not being able to feed yourself at the same time. These employers are exploiting the Mexicans just as much as they are exploiting Americans... and it's sad to see someone defend such a practice, no matter what reasons or excuses you give for your opinions.

It shows just how much you're out of touch with about 94% of America. It's becoming very obvious to me that you're one of the business owners I'm speaking of. No one else would have such an opinion, I'm convinced.

"Compete." You know, "skills?" Perhaps some level of ingenuity that makes American workers better then "cheap labor?"

If an American workers level of talent is such that he can be readily replaced by a non-English speaking immigrant (legal or no), the issue is with the American worker.

Wrong again. It's the issue of an emplyer who is willing to sell out his own countrymen for cheap labor, so he can fill his own pockets with the money he saves not having to pay an American worker what he is worth... It's about greed and corruption. You simply have the most elitist view I have ever come across.. and it's somewhat baffling.

I think anyone that works in my field would tell you that these people are FAR from skilled. They also hurt themselves more often because of failure to read/speak the language, therefore sucking more money out of the economy when we have to nurse them back to health.. In our hospitals... Where they get free healthcare.

Hell... I don't have free health care. I was born here.
Nothing wrong with that either though in your opinion... right?

That's not the reason. Heck, were your analysis true, it could be readily argued that "cheap labor" has reset what the REAL minimum wage actually is for non-skilled labor and folks should be damned happy for what they get. I know I'm not interested in paying GED-level work talent what the "approved" wage is, now.

GED- work level talent? So someone who was raised and born here, but didn't finish highschool - is less knowledgeable than someone who can't even speak the language?

I'm afraid you've exposed yourself, my friend... YOU are the problem. The criminal employer who values nothing more than the almighty dollar. YOU are what is wrong with this country. Not it's citizens.

illegals can readily live on $3 hourly but "Americans" cannot? I think such says something about the Americans, not the other way around.

I think it says something about the value of the American dollar compared to 3rd world currency. Other than that, it says nothing.

FWIW, If I worked 12 hour days, for $3 an hour, and was paid cash under the table, that's $36 per day... But if I'm living with 12 other people, making that kind of money - cash - everyday... That's $432 per day, CASH, coming into my home... ON TOP OF GOVERNMENT AID!

If I live in a sh*thole apt., that cost less per month than what is coming into the house per day... well... yeah, that does say something. It says illegals are willing to exploit the system in ways that Americans are not. It means they will live in ways that Americans will not. And it means that employers like you are selling your country to Mexico... for cheap, at that.

Your logic is incredible.

Then, as they say in the vernacular, they/we should "nut up," accept the full responsibility for causing these issues -- as I do/have/will -- and get some skills to overcome them. That is the only REAL answer.

I never knew that "nutting up" was aquiring skills, education and training, only to be paid less than what you're worth by some criminal employer. I just went in thousands of dollars of debt to complete trade school and learn carpentry. And you'd advocate that I should work for minimum wage, when going salary for someone in my profession is $20 an hour???

You're crazy. That's all there is to it.

I have nothing else to say to you about this. Your way of thinking is so far beyond repair that it's not even worth discussing. You're wrong. And if you hire illegals, you're just as much of a problem as they are to this country.

 

[Ezekiel]

Here's the thing: if you live in America, you should be for America first, you should pull for your fellows Americans, and try to help solve the problems that all Americans share.

"Concur."

It's just that we are doing it all wrong.

Illegal immigration is a symptom and the Mexican border CANNOT be controlled.

Fix the problem.

The problem is HERE. :banghead: