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Any Fortis/Bren 10 news from SHOT?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Grayrider, Jan 22, 2010.

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  1. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    I have been looking online and apart from pictures have not seen any news on the Fortis. Anybody stop by there at SHOT? I am reserving cash for one. That will give me a pistol I have been wanting since I was a kid and the Bren 10 was new.

    :D

    John
     
  2. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    Pics from 2010 SHOT Show.

    full size
    [​IMG]

    compact
    [​IMG]

    compact
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    I saw them. Very nice! I may do the compact and use it for CCW. Any news on when, how much, etc.?

    John
     
  4. Control

    Control Member

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    These are the first pictures I've seen of the Bren at the shot show. I've been looking every day. Thanks Quiet.

    Any more news on price and availability would be good if you have it.
     
  5. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    What is the circle with the "S" stamped on it on the slide?
     
  6. kanook

    kanook Member

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    Man o man, he has got all the #1s.
     
  7. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Is that a removable barrel bushing?
     
  8. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    It sure looks like they are using Tanfolgio for the manufacturing--are they US made?

    (No, I am not saying it's the same thing as the Tanfolgio / EAA Witness products, but the relationship sure seems to be there in pictures.)

    Jim H.
     
  9. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    Nope, not a Tanfoglio. The similarity is due to both lines of firearms tracing lineage to a similar common ancestor in the CZ-75. ETA: Silly me, I did not notice that VLTOR said it uses Witness mags on their web site.

    :D

    John
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  10. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    They real purdy.

    Always had a hankering to own a Bren Ten, but I'm a relative cheapskate, and wouldn't want to use a classic original.

    atblis, I don't know whether the castle barrel bushing is removable or not, I do know Fortis used it as it's part of the classic look of the Bren.
     
  11. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    If they aren't overpriced, and if they use the Tanfolgio mags (of which I have four-to-six, IIRC), then I might be interested, too. It is, as Gungnir says, a good-looking pistol.

    Jim H.
     
  12. Acera

    Acera Member

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  13. lechiffre

    lechiffre Member

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    that was a cross bolt firing pin safety on the old bren tens. i guess it is the same with the new ones.

    the old ones had removable barrel bushings. i guess it is the same with the new ones.
     
  14. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    Msrp = $1199.
     
  15. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Remember guys their stated intent was to keep as close to the original design as possible, not make any changes.

    Yeah, they could have done a lot of stuff to modernize it, but that was not the point.


    This picture might help answer the question about the bushing.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    I'm going to assume that, once initial demand is satisfied, end-buyer pricing will adjust to perhaps a 15% discount from list--or something on the order of $1000.00.

    That's going to put it up against the numerous $1000.00-or-so 1911 clones, and a few CZ-75(types). To compete there, IMO the current product has to be tweaked a bit--for example, the vertical milling(?) on the grip should be replaced with checkering. Right now, that grip simply looks like the $500-$600 Tanfoglio products. Simillarly, those distinctive shapes on the slide release and frame safety had better feel good in operation. The hammer is aesthetically unpleasing, and "conventional." I'm assuming there is NO chance of a pinch with that frame bob, right, even with a fleshy hand, or an unusually high grip?

    And so on and so on.

    In sum, it is probably a winner--and if it gets into the market just in time for the next politically-driven buying surge, it ought to be successful. FWIW, I'd get it to Jeff Quinn (Gun Blast) as soon as it is feasible, i.e., as the distribution pipeline starts filling.

    I'm an unabashed fan of the CZ-75 types, and it's good to see Jeff Cooper's dream machine in its latest iteration. I'm probably a buyer--but I'll also wait.

    Jim H.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  17. atblis

    atblis Member

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    I don't think there will be an issue. I think it fits nicely into its own niche (assuming it proves to be well made, accurate, and reliable).

    The 1911s are different enough. Single stack, single action...

    Different enough from a Glock. Not polymer and doesn't have the Glock trigger.

    This looks to be much higher quality than standard Tanfoglios, plus you don't have to deal with EAA.

    I've seen this over and over through the years.

    "I want a 10mm but don't want a 1911, too low of capacity. Don't want a Glock because it's polymer and the trigger sucks, don't want a Tanfoglio because the quality is spotty and EAA CS is horrible."
     
  18. strangelittleman

    strangelittleman Member

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    Yes, it's made in the US. Last yr at SHOT Orlando, the Vltor people said Ruger's Pinetree Casting is making the frames for Vltor.
     
  19. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    That is basically me :D:D I would only add my dislike for SA only action in the 1911 platform.

    This is the reason why I resorted to a good used S&W 1006 (still looking)

    Just talking around I noticed an evident interest in the 10mm....why there are not more manufacturers jumping aboard?? Why 10mm lovers have to be so limited in their choice?? You can buy so many different 9mm, .40 and 45 handguns but for anything more powerful tough luck...the "Ten" is such a wonderful round.

    It is a shame for Tanfoglio does not resolve the EAA issue (and the quality control problems, including the limitation in 10 mm power for their Witness) once and for all.....the horrible reputation of that company could hurt their business in the long run.

    However I agree with the fact that based on the pics, the pistol look too close to the EAA (Tanfoglio) Witness so it will be hard to justify a price tag of over $1000 when the Italian pistol costs only $400-450...yes we all known the EAA problems (CS and 10mm cracked slides) but unsuspecting potential customers with no experience with EAA may find hard to justify the price difference.....the cheap rubber grips look exactly like the basic Witness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  20. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    After my experience with EAA I need to ask....how good is Vltor CS?? There is any chance for them to go out of business in few years?? How big they are??

    I hope it does not end up like the first Bren Ten story...
     
  21. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Hmm

    I would assume Vltor is making pretty good money off of their AR stuff and in no danger of going under.
     
  22. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    +1 -- unless they've mortgaged the whole house on the Bren 10 (which I'm pretty certain is not the case), VLTOR should be around for a long time.
     
  23. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    This Bren Ten may be MUCH more appealing, I think, than the other -75 types.

    As those of us contributing to this thread apparently know, one of the inherent disadvantages to the design is its 'negative' angle to the barrel, relative to the rails. IOW, the design demands a high rear sight.

    (I had a Springfield Armory P9C / .40 (the "sub" compact) I set up for concealed carry, usually SOB--trigger job, bobbed hammer. The rear sight was the typical -75 type with a vertical adjustment--and it was a slicer waiting for action in any sort of tap-and-rack practice, and a snagger-poker as well. The current EAA products' sights are somewhat better; I don't know what the CZ-brands' are like.)

    The Bren Ten "solves" the related issues of a high rear sight by incorporating the cross bolt safety and related slide shape / height. It's an elegant solution, I think, particularly if they incorporate the slide cuts needed for a Novak-type carry sight and a more traditional-type adjustable match sight.

    Is the trigger module changed / updated at all?

    added on edit: I keep seeing more details, the longer I look at the images (thanks for good ones, Quiet)....IMO, the slide serrations could be better done--more, maybe, and arguably a front set as well.

    Jim H.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  24. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    I appreciate your position, but for those of us who are Bren 10 fans I think I am safe saying we do not want it drastically changed from the original. The point for me is owning a gun I have long admired. VLTOR making it is a bonus as they are a well proven vendor that makes exceptional products. I am looking forward to finally owning a firearm that has been on my wish list since I was a teen. I could have purchased an original, but would not been willing to shoot or carry it without a manufacturer to call on if something broke. VLTOR will give me a Bren 10 that I can shoot, carry, and enjoy!

    :D

    John
     
  25. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    "...for those of us who are Bren 10 fans I think I am safe saying we do not want it drastically changed from the original."

    I can appreciate that, John. I'm just looking ahead, so to speak, after this pistol sells to all the fans of the original package. Which, as we all know, also suffered from some very real problems.

    I simply don't think the Bren Ten, as a product subject to "modern" merchandising factors, can remain fixed in time. Product variants are needed to enhance value, to attract new buyers, etc., etc. Genuine enhancements to product function most gunnies would agree with (i.e., better serrations) really are no loss to the nostalgia buyers, as long as a version that suits their taste is available for them.

    If Colt, SA, and all the other 1911 makers made only the 1911A1, that firearm would be stuck in history, I suspect.

    Jim H.
     
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