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Any Latinists out there? (gun related)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by TheArchDuke, Mar 1, 2007.

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  1. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    I was thinking about gun engraving and I thought this latin phrase might be cool to get on the slide of a pistol:

    "tenebras expellit et hostes"

    It's supposed to say "he expells the darkness and the enemy"

    Are there any highroaders out there in cyberspace that can proof-read that phrase for me? Is that the proper spelling and grammer?
     
  2. DReicht

    DReicht Member

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    Looks good to me and my 4 years of Latin. You even got the syntax correct, apparently you aren't too shabby yourself :D
     
  3. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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    Can't proofread it for you, but I do like the expression
     
  4. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    'Si vis pacem, parabellum' is good Latin-speak... and I think your phrase is right. I don't remember my Latin too well, though.
     
  5. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    Oh I found this on one of those hokey family crest sites. Apparently it's my family motto, but how many different Smith families could there be? haha

    Oh well, according to the intergalactic laws of heraldry, any family member can change their family coat of arms at any time...so that is officially my new family motto.


    Sorry, back to the topic... Thanks for the info!
     
  6. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    Latin I'm not so good in.

    Hebrew or spanish is where I could either figure it out or ask a family member.
     
  7. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    Hmm, can I get back to you on that hebrew thing? My girlfriend has a Hebrew phrase she wants tattooed somewhere. Can you read or write it?
     
  8. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    if I can't, I can probably ask a family member or friend - depending upon what it says. ;)
     
  9. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    Cool thanks. I'll PM you later if I can find out what it is she wanted.

    Maybe she'll even get it engraved on her Marlin (you like how I tied it back in to the topic there? haha)
     
  10. aps88

    aps88 Member

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    Looks good to me. I study classical languages (still in school), and the grammar looks fine. Unfortunately I haven't taken any Latin Composition yet, so I don't really know word order customs (if you even care, yours is definitely fine the way it is.) Generic latin would put the verb at the end of the sentence (tenebras et hostes expellit), but obviously real writers moved words around all over, so anything is fine.
     
  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    tenebras expellit et hostes

    Expello expellEre, so "et" not "it"

    Tenebra /arum should be am because it's the (singular) subject, unless expellere takes some odd case, but as far as I can see it doesn't.

    Hostis/is (third I think) means a public enemy like an army. There's a different word for a personal enemy, but I assume that's not the intended meaning.

    "et" as "and" is usually replaced with "que" for posey and the like.

    igitur,

    TENEBRAM HOSTEMQUE EXPELLET

    cf ARMA VIRUMQUE CANO

    I kind of like TENEBRAM HOSTEMQUE NECAT, which would be he kills the darkness and the enemy. Expello/ere has the air of informal banishment to it. But not quite up to the level of Caesar banishing you, which would be "exterminare." Necare is to kill, as in put a bullet in it.

    But I'm more at the level of Latin Harry Potter, so any real scholars feel free to correct any and all of this.
     
  12. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    Very interesting info Cosmoline.

    The context of the phrase is each individual in a group doing his part to help expell an army.

    Apparently, way back in Ireland, the Smiths (then known as the McGowans) fought a battle at night using torches. Thus, "He (each individual) does his part to expell the darkness and the enemy".

    I don't know Latin at all so I don't know if that helps to clarify anything haha
     
  13. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    OK, give me a minute and I'll work something out along those lines.

    LUMINE TENEBRAM HOSTEMQUE EXPELLEMUS

    By light we expel the darkness and the enemy

    How's that?

    Lumine is in the ablative singular, and I chanaged expellet to expellemus to reflect joint effort. Keeping it in the present tense makes it sound like a motto, to me at least.

    or you could add Ferrum/i (iron)

    FERRO LUMINEQUE TENEBRAM HOSTEMQUE EXPELLEMUS
     
  14. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    What does it mean when you add "iron"? BY IRON AND LIGHT..."? The grammer is hard to grasp...but I guess that's pretty well known haha
     
  15. Anteater1717

    Anteater1717 Member

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    es tu agricola? i dont know why i asked that, here is some random latin for everyone :)

    custos gaurd
    comitor accompany
    nactus having seized
    nasus nose
    spero hope
    tandem atlast
    pater father
    mater mother
    en look
    flamma flame
    flumen river
    gaza treasure
    cogo force
    conficio finish
    durus hard
    hora hour
    nuper recently
    celo hide
    unde from where
    plenus full morbus illnes
    sapiens wise
    carcer prison
    verum the truth
    i could continue if you would like
     
  16. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    "iron" as in swords, though it's also old slang for firearms.
     
  17. TheArchDuke

    TheArchDuke Member

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    Very nice! I like it, Thank you.
     
  18. Connecticut Yankee

    Connecticut Yankee Member

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    Perhaps Fr. Zuhlsdorf Might Help

    Fr. Zuhlsdorf has a column "What Does the Prayer Really Say" in which he in exhaustive detail and with much humor looks at the correct translation of the Latin prayers of the Catholic church. His website is: http://wdtprs.com/blog/ and there is an e-mail address for him. I have never corresponded with him and don't know his feelings about firearms. However, he really knows and enjoys Latin and will go on for paragraphs about the root meaning and nuances of individual words according to the Lewis & Short dictionary. It can't hurt to ask his help. Also, he may be able to tell you of other classic Latin inscriptions that might be of interest. There has to be more than Arma virumque cano and Ultima ratio regis.
     
  19. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i only had 2 yrs of latin. my favorite phrase is MOST appropriate for internet fora


    de asini umbra disceptare (arguing about the shadow of a donkey)
     
  20. aps88

    aps88 Member

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    Cosmoline, tenebrae is a plural word used as a singular. It should be tenebras. (I had to look it up to double check.)

    Also, it should be expellIT for a 3rd singular present tense. expellet would be future tense. It's expello, not expelleo, in which case you would be correct.

    Replacing the et with que makes sense. Either is grammatically correct I think, but I agree the que is probably more customary in a case like this.

    Using other words for enemy and expel could work. I don't really know enough latin to suggest others, but your current ones don't strike me as wrong. Expello and hostis are both fairly common words.

    If you want to go with Cosmoline suggestion of "by light and iron," you could rearrange the words to get a quasi-Golden Line (I don't have the talent to put it into meter.) But it could be something like this:

    tenebras lumine expellimus ferro hostes

    The words are parallel (the two objects on the ends, then one step in are the instruments of expelling, then the verb in the middle). Also, if you want to read really far into it, you have the bad things on the outside because they are being expelled, and the expelling instrument is right next to them, so the order of the line kind of mimics the statement if you understand. Just a thought.

    Here is a good website for looking up words and meanings http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cache/perscoll_PersInfo.html

    It has an English to latin word search and a morphological analysis to check any latin words.

    If you could fine someone to put your phrase in meter, then you would be really cool.
     
  21. JoseM

    JoseM Member

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    Hilarious...I had the picture of the guard in Monty Python's Life of Bryon just then....
     
  22. jlbraun

    jlbraun Member

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    Yet another reason why I love THR. An entire page devoted to the particulars of Latin grammar to be engraved on the side of a firearm. :D
     
  23. AndyC

    AndyC Member

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    Every time I see a discussion on Latin grammar, I'm so tempted to post the "Romanes Eunt Domus" scene from "The Life of Brian" by Monty Python :D

    Edit: Looky what I found on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8
     
  24. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Thanks for that insight aps88

    What difference in emphasis does it make to dump the "que/et"? If you drop them, would the emphasis go to the implied "us" instead of the light and fire? The other thing I was wondering is how the poets would decide whether to put "que" in for both light and iron and darkness and the enemy.
     
  25. Anteater1717

    Anteater1717 Member

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    "de asini umbra disceptare (arguing about the shadow of a donkey)"
    or ghost of a donkey if i am correct

    my favorite if i remember correctly correct me if i am saying somthing rong was ace tace corruqus wich i believe ment to the crows with you wich was a bad inssult in its time.

    and everyones favorite ignis bracchium fire arm realy realy literaly
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2007
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