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Any MSAR owners?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by TIMC, Sep 13, 2010.

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  1. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    I recently bought an MSAR E4 rifle and have not had a chance to get it out to the range. First thing I did was send the stock in for the factory recall to have the mag release replaced. I just got it back this morning so she is all cleaned, lubed and ready for the range. Hopefully I can sneak out there tomorrow and give her a try. I was just wondering if anyone else had one and how well you like yours?

    Here is a pic of mine...
    MSARE4.jpg
     
  2. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

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    I have an STG556, a 4th Gen. model. I only have ~600 rounds through it, but it has been 100% so far with any ammo I've put through it (brass cased only). I ave had a few instances where the bolt did not lock back on an empty magazine. At first I thought this was due to underpowered ammo, but later on I realized that I have a very firm cheek weld on the stock, I sometimes accidentally hit the bolt release with my cheek. This keeps the bolt from locking back.

    I got screwed with mine; bought it for $1600 just 2 months before the prices dropped to $1k. I'm glad I have this rifle, just not too thrilled to have taken a $600 hit so immediately.

    I've got mine set up in a way that is perfect for me; Aimpoint in a LaRue mount, GG&G back-up sights, 9" side rail with a Surefire X200. Life is good.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Great set up and sweet lookng rifle!

    I know what you mean about paying too much, I did the same thing with mine just so I could use standard AR mags. I also had to deal with the factory recall which was very fast to get done but a pain none the less. I am very happy so far and have lusted after an AUG style rifle for many years. There is just something about the Bullpup design that is way too cool. I don't think it will ever replace my AR's but it has a nice place in my collection.
     
  4. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

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    I agree, the AUG type really shines at close ranges out to ~200 yards. Beyond that, the trigger pull starts to come into play, and the AR15 really starts to shine. I think of my MSAR as a great alternative to a 5.56mm Short Barreled Rifle. I think it would make a great home defense carbine (where 5.56 is a good choice). I'm currently considering using it for that purpose. I think I will want a better flash hider if I wind up using it for HD, as the stock flash hider still allows for a large fireball.

    I have found that the 1:8 twist doesn't really like commercial .223 55gr ammo all that much. It will feed and fire them just fine, but the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. When switching to Federal XM193 and 62gr 5.56 loads, the rifle becomes MUCH more accurate.
     
  5. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    I got one in Dec 2009, but just sold it for my 2nd PS90.

    It was pretty nice - but I preferred the PS90 platform. I did originally have the factory optic on mine - but it was just too low. So I sold the optic and got a rail and mounted a Eotech on mine.
     
  6. Storm

    Storm Member

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    I hav one I guess would be a first Gen. I picked it up used (which was a nice surprise and a nice savings) fairly soon after they came out but well after the serial number cutoff for the early rifles that did have some issues. Mine is black with the factory optics. I really like the factory optics (that are no longer available) and will keep the rifle original. It shoots extremely well and has been issue-free.
     
  7. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    I've owned two.

    I picked up a Gen 4 Stg.556 with the rail a little over a year ago for almost $2k and sold it to buy an FS2000.

    I then sold the FS2000 because I realized that I had spent too much on it and had a severe case of buyers remorse.

    A few months ago I picked up another Stg.556 when the price on them suddenly plummeted, I paid $1,300 for a brand new one with the optic and 20in barrel. Now that MSAR is on consignment at my local shop.

    I've always liked the Aug and the MSAR's that I've had were fine rifles. However I decided that I own enough .223 rifles already and I'm just not in love with the MSAR, I felt like I needed to buy one because they are so cheap right now. The one thing I really don't like about the Aug design is that you can't transition from right to left shoulder without changing the bolt. That's what I really liked about the FS2000, there was no need to fear high speed ejecting brass in the face if you had to switch to your opposite shoulder.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  8. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    I have three. Love them all. Easy to shoot, very accurate, and so very handy given the short length. Perfect for home defense, and lots of fun at the range!

    John
     
  9. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    I bought an E4 for about $1300. By the way, the OP photo with the optic appears to show the 556 model, not the E4 with the top rail.

    Overall I like mine mainly for the compact size. I have some issues with mine feeding/firing the first round in a magazine. I also don't care for the plastic 'guts' like the mag release, trigger guts, etc. These should be made more sturdy. I like the weapon, particularly for CQB. It's comfortable and makes sense. The magazines have a tendancy to allow the top rounds of ammo to 'pop' out and are not very secure. I left some on the shooting bench and the jolt of firing caused the rounds to pop out.

    Overall, it's a good gun. Possibly overpriced now. I think a fair price is $900 for the 556 and $1100 for the E4 model.
     
  10. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    No, his pic is not an STG - it is an E4. You can tell because of the texturing on the stock and also the extra accessory rails he has.

    Not every E4 had the optic rail. There were a few E4s with factory sights made before they discontinued the factory optic altogether. The E4 factory optic is a bit taller than the STG factory optic was. Not much - but a tiny bit higher...
     
  11. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Yes it is an E4 rifle. I took it to the range this afternoon and it was great. I tried several types of AR mags and a couple of different types of ammo and had no issues with anything. I found I could easily ring the 4x6" swining metal plates at 100 yards which is not bad for my old eyes.
     
  12. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I don't own one, and personally find the design inferior (less accurate and less robust design) to the M17 that I own, that happens to fill the same role (though it isn't lefty friendly, so it isn't the right rifle for some folks). OTOH I am looking forward to their new offerings in different chamberings, because I do like the design and ergonomics, just no need for that particular cartridge. I decided to cancel my order for the 7.62x39mm version, and the 5.45x39.5mm version in favor of waiting out the new MCS chambered for .45ACP that is due to be unveiled in December. It fills a role (albeit limited) that I don't currently have a rifle for, and is reported to be half the price of the E4. I still find it to be a bit fugly, but it is slowly growing on me.

    :)
     
  13. 68wj

    68wj Member

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    I have liked the AUG style rifles since spending some time in Australia. Their soldiers use them and they looked to be very effective. I am just too used to the m16/ar15 to want to switch, but I wouldn't turn one down either.
     
  14. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Oh, one other disappointment is that due to the plastic parts, the E4 (while advertised as taking AR15 mags) won't take aluminum magazines, only plastic ones.
     
  15. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

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    For what it's worth, MSAR now has a steel magazine catch upgrade for the E4.

    As far as the AUG design not being robust, there's at least a baker's dozen of countries whose soldiers would disagree :)
     
  16. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    There is a factory recall on the E4 rifles to replace the plastic mag release parts with stainless steel parts at no charge. I sent mine in before I ever shot it. I got it back 10 days from the day I sent the stock in. Mine will use any AR mag plastic, steel or aluminum. I know this because as said above I tried several different types. Mags drop free easily and I found I could do a mag change with one hand.
     
  17. Viking24

    Viking24 Member

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    Ive got a green 3rd gen 16" rail model that I paid $970 for new. So far very happy except I just cannot figure out what optic to mount on it. I looked at the Millett DMS until I realized its pretty much a full size scope and would look downright goofy. A $40 tasco red dot rides it until I can figure our what to go with. The biggest complaint with the rail model is the utter lack of options for irons...but I knew that going into it- just didnt think I'd do so much hand wringing over it. One other good/bad thing is that you get to taste burned gas with your face right next to the ejection port...but I like it.
     
  18. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    I had irons on mine - Magpul flip ups. Granted - there isn't much distance between them, but I had them working at 50 yards...

    Nit a fantastic solution, but it works. With a longer top rail, it would work better (there are other rails available)

    msar-light2.jpg
     
  19. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Not to be nit-picky but this isn't an AUG. Furthermore, I didn't say that it wasn't a robust design, nor inaccurate, just that my M17 was more so in both categories and filled the same role (compact, well balanced carbine) and is chambered for the same cartridge. I really do like the MSAR, it is a comfortable rifle, and has a pretty darn good design IMO, I just want something different (and/or better)...and that is the new MSAR-MCS.

    An inherent problem with most semi-auto bullpup designs (only excluding the RFB, FS2k, and PS90 that I know of), but I find it to be tolerable unless the wind is blowing it directly up your nose.

    :)
     
  20. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

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  21. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    This is GREAT news. Thanks for the update. I'll send my in promptly.
     
  22. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I didn't say it isn't the same basic design, but there it is an unequivocal fact that it is not an AUG because it isn't made by Steyr. That is akin to calling a DPMS AR-15 an M4. Furthermore, there are no countries that use the MSAR as a service rifle, so that isn't a valid argument either.
     
  23. boricua9mm

    boricua9mm Member

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    No, it would be akin to saying a DPMS is not an AR-15, because we all know an AR-15 can only be an original Armalite. :rolleyes:

    What you did say was that you "personally find the design inferior to the M17" that you own. Hence, you are talking about the AUG design, as the MSAR is an AUG design with some small improvements.

    Following that logic, a Polytech, WASR, Arsenal, etc. are not "AKs" because they are not made at the Izhmash plant. That just doesn't hold water.

    Bottom line is, there are no countries using your beloved Bushmaster bullpup design, or any incarnation of it, whereas there are several countries who rely upon the AUG design, regardless of if it's made in the Steyr plant. You think the Bushpup is a better design than the AUG design. What I'm saying is at least 13 countries disagree...
     
  24. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Make sure you call first and get an RA number.
    The website will give you the details.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  25. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Yes I did, and I do find the design to be superior to the MSAR as well as the AUG, but I didn't try to back it up by saying that it was based upon a design that was used by a military force (most notably the SA-80 and the G36). That was just my feelings about the MSAR and why I can't justify buying one in .223Rem/5.56mmNATO. If you took the time to read the entirety of my statement you would see that I like the ergonomics and balance afforded by this design, and would like to purchase a MSAR when they offer more chamberings in the future.

    Wrong, I never stated that it wasn't a similar design, you were the one that laid claim that the MSAR was a military proven rifle, and nothing could be further from the truth. No nation has adopted the MSAR, and whether it is better or not, they most likely never will. That doesn't mean that it is a poor design, as some of the best designs were not adopted by any military forces, it only means that your claims are incorrect.

    You haven't a clue of what you are talking about. The M17 is directly based upon the AR-18 and SA-80 design, the same SA-80 that forced the British to redesign the marksmanship course (only the M17 incorporates improvements found on the WA-2000 sniper rifle system to slightly increase the accuracy during sustained fire). The same design has proven itself to be extremely rugged and durable save for some poorly designed bits (most notably the handguard) that are not present on the M17 (the forearm is entirely constructed of .125in. thick aircraft aluminum). There is no arguing that it wasn't adopted by the Australian military, but that was mostly due to the instability of the company that designed the rifle (and concerns because it couldn't be fired left-handed).
     
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